Using tube amp with electrostatic speakers.
stewart0722 Planars whether it be magnetic or electrostatic sound their best when fed prodigious solid state juice.....That really depends on the specific speakers. You're certainly mistaken if we're talking about Infinity Betas, for example. |
Those effects will become increasingly pronounced as speaker impedance in that octave decreases relative to amplifier output impedance, everything else being equal.Al, as I mentioned earlier, the impedance curve of any ESL is not a graph of its efficiency (unlike a typical box speaker; this is due to the fact that the impedance curve is based on a capacitor). The fact of the matter is the efficiency curve looks a bit different and often ignores the impedance curve. This is why an amplifier that acts as a voltage source will tend to sound bright on an ESL and might not make so much bass. none of it negates the fact that ESLs and MagneticsThis statement is really questionable. If it were completely true a 15-watt amp would not do so well on Quad ESL57s (but they do- Quad used to make a 15-watt tube amp that was made for the ESL-57). Or a 60-watt amp on Quad ESL63s and Accoustats (we've sold lots of our M-60s to such owners). I've seen 70-watt amps play Sound Labs quite nicely. We sell a good number of our MA-1s (140 watts) to Sound Lab owners. We also have a number of customers running M-60s on Magnaplanars (although they use a set of ZEROs to allow the M-60 to deal with the impedance). The reason the Sanders needs such a powerful amp is that the speaker is inefficient. This is a conundrum with ESL designers- how to place the diaphragm... closely spaced so its easier to drive (might not handle excursion well)? Widely spaced to handle excursion (will be really inefficient)? A speaker that **requires** a 900 watt amp to drive it is next door to criminal (and FWIW the Sanders does not seem to need that sort of power). The last thing you want to do with **any** amplifier is make it work hard (such increases audible distortions that make the presentation harsher and less detailed; exactly the opposite of what you want on an ESL). If you've set up your system properly, your amps won't be working hard most of the time. |
stewart, "Planars whether it be magnetic or electrostatic sound their best when fed prodigious solid state juice....." Some years ago I heard a Magnepan demo at the CES where they were driving MG 3.6s bi-amped with Bryston amps (no recollection of which models). I can't say their sound was pleasing or even interesting. However I've also heard MG 3.6s driven by a 100 watt ARC tube amp which sounded musical and highly enjoyable. Does this mean I'm right and you're wrong? Or you're right and I'm wrong? I'll say neither one. Only that different folks have different preferences and there are no absolutes. |
Dear Tim (Pryso), Let me help you with that. Stewart is full of baloney if he insists on analogizing a magneplanar type speaker with an ESL. They may both be "flat", but that's about where the similarity ends. The principles of their operation are completely different. Thus also their typical impedance characteristics and inherent efficiencies, respectively, are very different. ESLs that need lots of solid state power are ESLs that were designed with SS amplification in mind and which typically contain crossover networks that grossly waste amplifier power and in the process also create nasty impedance dips at or near midrange and bass frequencies. If he prefers SS amplifiers to tube amplifiers, that is another matter, and there he is entitled to his opinion. Frankly, magnepans leave me totally cold. They are dead sounding; they fail to capture the natural decay of musical instruments. Only the later iterations that incorporate a ribbon tweeter are at all listenable, to me. And that is only my opinion, of course. The thread is about ESLs, however. |
LewM There's no analogizing......and I know they're different (that's why they're not both called electrostatic) I have owned LOTS of electrostatic loudspeakers over the years and I have owned Magnetic Planar speakers over the years, and yes.....it is my opinion that both benefit from a lot of juice.......if that makes me full of baloney, then so be it.....does it mean that folks can't get a good sound at reasonable levels with a 60 watt Atmasphere tube amp? no! But in my experience, a good dose of juice gives electrostatic loudspeakers (to stay on topic) a more effortless quality better kick in the lower registers.... As to Sanders using 900w amps, his speakers are afterall hybrids, with very prodigious bass at the shows and he will place anyone who comes to his room perfectly on axis in 3 chairs placed along the center line......Once those people buy a pair and get them home, they find out that they again must place their chair along that center line......if they move their head 4 millimeters to the left or right, the soundstage will collapse as will all the detail......I had a friend buy a pair used, drove 400 miles to pick them up , along with the Magtech amp.....got them home, played them for exactly 5 minutes, then put them on Gon..... I have owned Quad ESL63s, I have owned Acoustat 2+2's with heavily modified Servo amps from their original model X, I have owned Martin Logans. I now own Magnepan 3.7s The Magnepan 3.7s absolutely obliterate any electrostatic loudspeaker I have ever owned or heard....they are anything but cold and they capture the natural decay of musical instruments better than any speaker I've heard.....and like you, "That is only my opinion" |
