Enough SET Power for Rock and Roll

this is an old thread but worth reviving- if you get an SET amp, and your speakers are truly that efficient, you won't need no damned 100 decibels to hear and enjoy the music.  you'll find yourself turning it down to 50-60 decibels and about 2-3 watts per channel, and you'll be hearing ALL the music, all the detail, with no ear fatigue- and you will listen longer to your recordings, and enjoy them more, and will be hearing details and vibes that you never knew were there.  when I first stumbled upon single ended sound, I was on the high power solid state trip- which is like some druggie chasing their first high, but never achieving it again.  solid state is all about bass hit and volume, not detail and smoothness.  what I found was a 12ad7 driving a 6bq5, per channel, is all you really need, if the PST, OPT, chokes, caps are all high quality, and my speakers are run of the mill consumer grade Technics 97 db/w/m rating from the 1980's.  what I did find was the 15" woofers are a must have for decent bass.  going down to a 12" or 10" just sacrifices too much.  still every nice sound but not quite enough for rock music.  I went the single ended PENTODE route.  simply because they are plentiful, cheap, and sound very good for a tiny investment.  the 300b is the top of the heap in SE sound.  it has that thick, syrupy sound that makes you want to close your eyes and fall asleep listening to it, which is what I like. I did tests with voltmeter and decibel meter in my 28' x 14' listening room, with speakers in upper corners of one long wall, and the sound is AMAZING.  the soundstage is UNBELIEVEABLE. I'd never go back to solid state except for maybe an outdoor party where volume was needed.  and what I found with the dB meter was, it only needed 50-60 dB sound level- not 100 dB.  and with the voltmeter, I took measurements and found out I only needed 2-3 watts per channel to achieve this.  realize your 101 dB rated speakers, only need ONE WATT to achieves 101 dB, 3 feet away from the speakers.   if you had 3 watts that would be plenty and your wife would be bitching to turn it down.  the great perk of these tube stereos is, you can listen all day and a relatively high level, and after 12 hours of listening, your ears are no phased at all.  no ringing or muffled hearing.  it saves your ears. 

ps- let me add, if you can see both your speakers in a picture of video view, they are too close together. the speakers have to be at least 20-25 feet apart to get the soundstage to emerge- the farther apart they are, the BIGGER THE SOUNDSTAGE. this is a simple but well kept secret amongst experienced veteran tube-stereo audiophiles. having speakers 10’ apart creates a tiny soundstage in miniature. mine are 28’ apart and the soundstage is HUGE, like a real concert, with depth that sounds like it’s 30 feet away in the front yard, and forward towards me only a foot away, while the speakers are in fact 14’ in front of me, to each side. yet the 28’ space between the speakers, creates a realistic soundstage with individual singers, instruments, etc. with drums to the background, just like sitting in the front row of watching a real band on stage. or, what you get is the effect of exactly where the mics were placed at the live recording, for instance the live Zeppelin double LP, it sounds like the stage is maybe 30’-50’ away, because that’s about where they had the mics to record it.

Rock music is loud and that's the way most fans want to hear it.  If you are an audiophile you want it loud with all the other good stuff audiophiles listen for.   

The opinions appear to be mixed whether a SET amp can truly do rock well.   I think most SET owners are willing to compromise in this area which is fine.  Some may have big large high quality speakers capable of the task, but those are not for everyone.  

Also I have yet to hear a SET do rock music loud and real at shows.   Most vendors naturally shy away from that kind of demo.

Its also true that in a small room in particular with agood setup one might get away with a lot more in this regard.

But it just does not seem like a natural fit for a lover of loud rock music to attack it with a SET amp.  It may still sound quite nice, just not the best for that kind of music.   

Then again we have to accept compomises somewhere usually when it comes to sound quality so one can pick whatever compromises works best for them.

For someone who liten to a variety of music including rock, the advantages may outweigh the disadvantages.    That's what it pretty much always comes down to when making a choice.

In my listening space with about 300b XLS 10watts and Audio Note E Speakers I love the pacing and emotional connection my system provides when listening to rock music. There is much about the way rock music is recorded in the studio with sound and instrumental layering that plays right into a SETs strengths. And the pacing of a great rhythm section is also why SETs are great for rock music. I kinda doubt 45 SET would give me the weight with my speakers when listening to rock. Maybe a direct coupled 2a3 SET would...who knows.

Now if you need gut punching bass at live concert levels you may need huge sub woofers and horns if that is your priority. You mention rock and roll, i am referring to rock music past and present. I don't listen to rock and roll from the 50's, not that it's not great music, it simply not a priority for me. I totally dig Elvis and his first band from the 50s. Have not heard it on my system, I probably should.

jetex,

Audio Note always has one of teh best sounding rooms at shows I’ve been to.

They seldom have rock music playing, but the larger bass driver and box used and corner placement combined with efficiency and overall quality is a very good example of a system built to be able to do most all things very well.

I’ve stolen the corner placement idea from them and use it with other box speakers I have of similar concept and the bass reinforcement corner placement provides alone might help push a system not otherwise built for rock music over the hump. Along with all the rest.

The only penalty paid I think is depth of soundstage in some cases but most people can probably live with that tradeoff.  Most traditional box designs are not champs at soundstage depth in particular to start with.