Do you think you need a subwoofer?

Raul, I agree.  For clean low bass, SS is best.  Also, I like and respect Duke Lejeune very much, and I applaud his success with AudioKinesis.  My problem when it comes to placing four subwoofers in my living room is where to place them.

But in my Beveridge system, I use a Threshold amplifier to drive my home-made transmission line woofers for all frequencies below about 100Hz, and the results are excellent. Dahlquist crossover receives the output from the preamplifier and provides the signal to the Threshold.  All solid state.

     For anyone seriously considering deploying a distributed bass array system in their system and room, I believe the thought of where to locate 4 subs is a common concern.

      It was definitely a concern of mine until I went through the rather extensive setup procedure that determines the ideal spot for each sub.  I'll describe my experience so that readers can better understand the process and how these concerns were remedied in my installation:

    My living room serves as the home for my combination  music listening and 5.1 HT system.
     It is 23 ft long and 16ft wide.  My 65" hdtv is wall mounted roughly in the center of the front 16 ft wall.  There is a Magnepan 2.7qr panel (each 6 ft tall and 2 ft wide) on each side of the tv that are both about 4 ft out from the front 16 ft wall and 1 ft in from each 23 ft side wall. There is a Magnepan CC3 center ch speaker centered above the tv that is wall mounted.    All components reside on or in a 5 ft wide by 1.5 ft tall audio cabinet located below the tv and against the 16 ft front wall.  
     The primary listening seat is centered on the rear 16 ft wall with a 7 ft sofa along the right 23 ft wall and 2 chairs along the opposite 23 ft wall.  There was not a lot of open space in this room when I began the setup procedure.
     

The setup procedure is:

Sub#1 is hooked up and placed on its back  (driver facing the ceiling) at the normal listening position. Music is played that has good and repetitive bass.

Walk around the edges of the room and determine exactly where the bass sounds best to you.

Attach the 3 spiked footers to Sub#1 and position it upright facing the nearest wall to the spot you determined the bass sounded best.

Sub#2 is hooked up and placed on its back at the primary listening position. With sub 1 & 2 playing, continue walking around the edges of your room and determine again where the bass sounds best to you.

Attach the 3 spiked footers to Sub#2 and position it upright facing the nearest wall to the spot you determined the bass sounded best.

Repeat this procedure for sub 3 & 4.

Small positioning adjustments may need to be made for each sub due to avoiding furniture and the WAF.

Once completed, final sub hook up is done in parallel:

Attach a single wire from the amp's speaker A's pos. output terminal and to Sub#1's pos. input terminal.

Attach a single wire from the amp's speaker A's neg. output terminal and to Sub#2's neg. input terminal.

Attach a single wire from Sub#1's neg. input terminal to Sub#2's pos. input terminal.

Attach Sub 3 & 4 using this parallel method on the amp's speaker B's output terminals.

I ordered single, high quality and low gauge speaker wire along with the sub system for a very reasonable price. Once the ideal locations for the subs was determined, I drilled holes in my room's floor to the crawl space below, and was able to hide the connecting wires.

     The final positioning turned out not to be an issue, with the best sounding positions actually being discreet and unobtrusive.  The 2 front subs are each located directly behind my main panel speakers and are not even visible from my primary listening position.

     The 2 rear subs are each located along each 23 ft side wall about a foot in from the rear wall.  The left wall sub is concealed from view by a leather recliner and the right wall sub is concealed behind a large end table.  My primary listening seat is between these 2 rear subs.

      I should mention I've never had my system/room analyzed using a mike and software.  From my purely subjective perspective, however, I'm confident the results would be good since I spent hours on the setup and critical listening from all six listening positions in my room. I would suggest this type of sub system as a viable alternative for anyone considering investing in one or more quality subs. The system is rated clean at 113 decibels at 20 hz. I've often heard and felt it go this deep. It feels and sounds clean and right but I can't verify the frequency, decibels or lack of distortion.

Sorry this turned out so long and windy,

  Tim     

Tim, Was this last post intended to make the rest of us feel good about the prospects of installing and positioning four subs in a listening room?  If so, it didn't work.  In my case, the listening room is our living room.  There is no video in the room at all. Apart from the physically huge audio system (Sound Lab 845PXs on the front wall and three turntables on the back wall, for example), the decor is art deco with a lot of antiques and original art works.  It's a pleasant place to be away from video, a bit smaller than your room but similar in proportions.  I would hate to have to watch out for tripping over subwoofers whilst walking around the room to change records, or when we are entertaining guests at parties.  I'll talk to Duke.

lewm:

" Tim, Was this last post intended to make the rest of us feel good about the prospects of installing and positioning four subs in a listening room?  If so, it didn't work."

Hi lewm,

     Yes,I was trying to mitigate the angst many likely experience at the thought of positioning 4 subs in their listening rooms.  My post was meant to convey that I was concerned about this, too, but that it was easier to incorporate 4 subs into my room than I initially thought.  In your case, unfortunately, you're not buying what I'm selling.

     I understand this solution may not work for everyone.  My only motivation for posting at all was to share what I know is a very effective method of attaining excellent bass response in any room that works well for both high quality 2-ch music and HT.  It is the only method I'm aware of that has this capability along with eliminating the vast majority of bass standing waves in any room which results in consistently accurate and tuneful bass throughout the entire room no matter where you are standing or sitting.

" I would hate to have to watch out for tripping over subwoofers whilst walking around the room to change records, or when we are entertaining guests at parties.  I'll talk to Duke."

     I think you would be well served by talking to Duke LeJeune at AudioKinesis.  In your case, I would suspect that you'd likely find the subs would sound best in the following positions:

The front 2 subs along the front wall behind, and discreetly hidden by,  your large Sound Labs.
One each of the back 2 subs opposite each other at some points along your side walls.

     This is only an educated guess and, of course, only you could determine if these positions would work for you.  I actually think the Debra or Swarm 4 sub system, with 4 dispersed 10" woofers, could be an ideal match for integrating well with high quality, fast electrostatic panels like sound Labs.  
     My only concern would be the possibility of the 2 side wall subs transmitting vibrations to your turntables along your rear wall.  
     I have no dog in this fight, but I really believe you would be pleasantly surprised how well a distributed bass array system could work in your room.

Please discuss with Duke.

Thanks,
  Tim

       

     

     

Dear @noble100 : For what I read from you we owns very different systems with different targets, mine is only to enjoy MUSIC and " mainly through the analog alternative that with so many troubles, limitations and disadvantages ( very well know ones. ) made it for me a huge almost titanic constant system " figth " trying to achieve the best quality level performance.
I’m not a bass’s lover but for years I learned and knew its main and critical importance to achieve that target and you know what?: I was and am not wrong in this main audio subject.

As I said I took along a complete year to achieve the precise integration of my Velodynes to my room/system with out room treatment or equalization about.

I know that with your bass array alternative i took to you 5 hours, good. I can’t discuss if your bass management room/sytem handling is better than mine for stereo MUSIC reproduction.

If you look to my virtual system, my subs position is way unorthodox for say the least: are  in front of my great ADS speakers viewing in between with the driver looking each to other Velodyne.

Btw, I have the room to have that four bass array units but before I can think on that maybe I will try what I learned from that JBL scientific studies that 3 subs are better than 2 and 4 units the " ideal " one.

I really appreciated your first time valuable contribution in this thread that try to cover perhaps the more unknowed audio main subject ever. Unknowed not only by we mere " mortal " audiophiles but for proffesional reviewer, manufacturers, designers and audio retailers/distributors.

Ignorance level is the name of the game in this case.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.