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Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?

I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.

Here is how I found out.

After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.

It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.

I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!

SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
sautan904
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 
Can't resist one more! Stereophile; Fremmer reviews Boulder 2150 at $ 99K. Power cords effect it? OF COURSE! It would be a POS if not! 

NO amount of sensible evidence will convince a self-confirmed skeptic. It will always be discounted, i.e. "He's a reviewer... can't be trusted," etc.

Re: valuation of cables, we have among us some of the world's most "thrifty" people and there again, NO amount of talk will get them to endorse even modest expense when they got a cord for free! The Wallet rules them more than theory. I know, as I was one of them. The arrogance and self-assurance is off the  charts.

The assumptions the theorists make are lame. In an age of nanotechnology they're thinking like it's the stone age. Listen to them and you WILL build a compromised audio system. 

Finally, Zephyr, I did the same with a boom box and aftermarket power cord; clear difference in sound. With such cheap and easy testing you have to be REALLY pig-headed to not try it. 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Speaking of Michael Fremer, wasn’t he the one who was challenged by the guy from the JREF Education Foundation, I forget that person’s name? Anyway, the challenge was if M. Fremer could correctly identify which cable was which in 10 consecutive blind trials. The two cables in question were el cheaply Monster Cable and the el expensivo PEAR cables that were around $20K. Did I mention the challenge was for $1 Million if M. Fremer succeeded in the blind test? Anyhow, something happened during the negotiations and test never took place. Now, I don’t know if M. Fremer was unhappy with the constraints of the tests, whether JREF got paranoid, thinking maybe this audiophile dude really can hear difference in cables and might very possibly take the Million Dollar prize or what all.

milty1966
14 posts
 
Sautan 904,
The proper unbiased test to run is the double blind test that many of us learned about in our Experimental Psychology classes.  You ran, perhaps?, a single blind test. The double blind test is set up like this. One of your friends disguises all three cables. as fully as possible so that neither you, the " plugger in-er",  nor the listener knows what speaker cables are being plugged in. They should be labeled with arbitrary meaningless letters or numbers for documenting purposes. In the alternative, the listener should not be able to even see the person who's plugging in the speaker wire.  Multiple random plugins of each wire pair should be done.  This eliminates any experimenter bias, i.e., when conscious, as you acknowledged, or, unconscious biasing that is transmitted by you to the listener. Also, when you misled the listener about which wire was being played  in your test, you obviously  introduced bias. Maybe your results will then be the same but you, and we, could then rest assured that no bias has been introduced into your experiment. 

shadorne's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Douglas,

You keep attacking the others. Why not provide all this evidence that you speak of?

If a Boulder amp at a cost of 99K needs a special power cord in order to function then surely the power cord is included in the box with the amp?

Seriously why would anyone sell a 99K amplifier and skimp so much on the design that the power cord it comes with is totally inadequate and it requires the user to buy a special power cord to function correctly?

I dont doubt that these ridiculous issues actually exist, as your experience and Fremer’s have confirmed it.

However, my questions still stands - why buy extremely expensive equipment so poorly made that it is inadequate out of the box? Where is the sense in this? Isn’t an amplifier supposed to maximize source reproduction and minimize everything else that is extraneous - isn’t that what a great amplifier design ought to do?

(I do understand that it is possible to design something that is highly sensitive to power cords and speaker wires and interconnects but WHY would a designer build a 99K amp based on such a terrible design)


mapman's avatar
mapman
22,454 posts
 
I’d return my 90k amp if I found out they cheaped out on the cord.

If if you can do a 90k amplifier right and then get the cord wrong and the cord matters then guess what you screwed up and credibility gone.
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