HIGH DEF DVD...WHATS THE LATEST NEWS?

Well I read your rant. I am not talkin about PS3. Analog gear wont be useful as the copy protection will necessitate HDMI which as you know carries both audio and video signal. New firmware will be required on audio receivers in order to decode hi def audio correctly. Analog can of course carry anything but 1080P is basically HDMI 1.3 due to copywrite protection and the audio is going to be carried with that.

In order to hear "full rez audio" you will need the updated firmware as part of the decoding processon ANY hi def audio capable receiver. Now you are suggesting that someone would use an HDMI out for video and still be able to use 8 analog outs for 7.1 audio. First, I am not sure that that will be possible, but second--nobody is gonna do that. People want touse their HDMI connect only and maybe a coax dig or optical just like today. very few people are gonna buy 7 analog connections and fiddle with that and most do not have receivers that accept all of that analog input for each separate audio channel. SACD and DVD-A have essentially failed by the way--so thats not a very good example.

Also, it really isnt game over. The PS3, just like the XBOX is by no means a slam dunk quality player for movies. If that was the case then why make any other players at all? I'm not really concerned about who is winnig, only that the HDMI chip specs, 1080P content, 1080P displays, and 1080P players are far from being on the same page at this point. I mean nothing is avaialable or set, and its all really expensive. Very few people will spend the bucks on all of the technology pieces to make this work.

How were the audio demos at CES flawed? Please tell me. I mean NOBODY could hear any difference. The demos were run by DTS and dolby in their own set ups. They were great. But not better.

Reload!

Why do you think there are 7.1analog outs on most BD players seen at CES?
Anolog outs are fully capable of delivering even 192/24.
It seems hd dvd is only required to have 2 built in lossless channels, and the two Toshiba models only have 5.1 channels, with all but two, downrezzed to regular dd/dts.

The actual announced titles so far for hi res audio soundtracks are all on BD only movies, and are linear lpcm with zero compression..... or actual true lossless audio.
You see BD can skip right by DTS HD and DD with its higher average bit rate and 50gb disc if it chooses to, and so far, it chooses to.

So its true that for hd dvd, you will need one of these receivers, pre/pros next year to hear hi res soundtracks, but BD is no one trick pony.

BD = actual 1080p and 7.1 lossless audio.
hd dvd = 1080i with no more than 2 channels of lossless audio unless you replace your current gear next year.

Well lets try it again...

1. Its not about a BD vs HD-DVD competition--the market will settle that.

2. Actually I didnt see any analog outputs being used in the hi def demos at CES. What I saw was HDMI interconnects.

3. Almost nobody has a 7.1 surround system in their homes. Some do. But very few. 5.1 is what is prevalent in HT set ups and all of those HTIBs sold every day at the big box retailers.

4. I like analog myself. But very few folks are going to buy and hook up 7 analog connections, a sub pre-out, and an HDMI as well. How silly. Also, there is discussion as to whether analog audio will be available when HDMI is in use at the same time. Moreover, almost NO ONE has analog channel inputs on the receivers for speakers. They are out there but very few.

5. Therefore, in the big picture, unfortunately, analog audio outputs have no relevance at all. Its gonna be HDMI whether we like it or not.

6. The only way Hi Def DVD, for audio and video, eclipse todays offerings is if; 1. You own a true native 1080P display. 2. You own a true 1080P player. 3. You have HD-DVDs/BD by purchase or rental. 4. You have the correct HDMI chipset in your player and display. 5. And you have an HDMI interconnect. 6. And you have a firmware updated receiver. Cost?- At a minimum--6500 bucks.

7. Right now, the availability to set that up is non-existent. No content and no hardware. But it will come on board bit by bit over the year I am sure. And it will be, price-wise- out of reach for 99% of the consumer population of the United States.

8. Nobody can hear any difference between the new audio formats and the old ones, the reason is that there is no loss of data in most DVDs today becuase the current technical limits are sufficient to carry the audio engineers creations as mixed. Simply put, the new audio codec doesnt add much if anything in most films/movies.

Again.... this is Audiogon and not the Joe 6 pack board.
7.1 analog ins are not required to experience hi res audio soundtracks...only 5.1....and I gaurantee you that most here have at least 5.1 who are into H/T.
Two years ago , I sold my Parasound halo c2 pre/pro here, and it had 7.1 analog ins.

People are more likely to use analog ins than wait over a year and buy a new receiver/pre/pro with hdmi.

And like I already said...Blu Ray does not require DTS HD or DD for hi res sound.
They have enough gb and bit rate for linear lossless audio on a 50gb disc., and at least three already announced titles that will use linear lossless.
Were are all these other people that heard no difference....certainly there not much mention of this at AVS.
If I am missing this big topic were everyone heard no difference....please point it out for us.
Did this Dolby demo even use an actual BD disc.....no
Did they have the quality of speakers that your average member here uses....probably not.
Did you here any linear lossless BD soundtracks....absolutely not.

Is there any proto type hd dvd player with 1080p compatibility ....no.... this is pure hype that you don't seem to want to talk about now that its been pointed out.

Members here are more likely to care about any upgrade in audio quality as well as who has it from the get go and how they can use it this summer and not in a year or so.
I have been using analog for sa-cd since 99/00.

If your reffering to average Joe on any of this....they will not be a factor for a few years if ever....except those that get a BD player via PS3 of course, and possibly try BD just because they have that capability.

AS far as the latest news though, the real deal is that while both PS3 and XBOX will be financially successful, the future of hi def DVD by anybody is in doubt at this point. There are many factors required for either format to be successful, and right now, as mentioned by other posters on this thread, many of us here who are audiophiles are simply going to wait it out; same with the videophiles to a large extent. Even moreso actually because the video part of this is very easy to define as far as specs etc. No one is going to buy a blu ray DVD for the audio alone. Lets face it.

AS far as analog outputs, most of us have analog reference two channel rigs and something else for HT; Most HT receivers used by sheer numbers DO NOT have separate audio channel analog inputs; its usually a digital coax, optical, or HDMI input for HT. SO analog 7.1 which you were first pushing, and then analog 5.1, isn't really of any significance. It wont help either format succeed. And yes, I know that the Arcam 300 for instance has analog inputs. And other brands we use here as well- but its still a significant minority.

AS far as the demos at CES- DTS knows what they are doing. The demo was great! But not any holy grail of audio. Dolby had one of their top engineers there who actually designs the Dolby processing process- their room was too small to take full advantage of their new 14.1 ( yes) demo-- but again- hi rez audio demo was good but not any different than a good 5.1 soundtrack that we have now.

One of my friends is a sound engineer in Los Angeles and did some of the soundtracks for movies like " Hot Chicks" and "Scooby Doo" including and especially the music. What I am saying is that the concept of "lossless audio" so we can hear just as the audio engienners intended" assumes that we aren't hearing something now due to some technical limitation that will be removed with the new audio codec. But right now we are hearing everything intended to be heard because the technical limits we now have are not even being reached in the vast majority of soundtracks. So having a faster/greater bitrate and other technical improvements don't give an audible result.

As far as audiogon and audio improvements, I am one of those two channel reference set up analog tube gear guys that thinks that LPs sound a lot better than CDs and isnt particularly wowed by digital technology and processing. I dont like equipment getting in the way of my music and I prefer not to notice it at all. Audio on HD-DVD and Blu Ray is simply processed creativity--but is far from reference analog audio for me at this point.