Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

The DP100 direct drive had a lack of focus, shallow soundstage, mild attack, overly delicate transients and compressed dynamic range compared to the Final.

Hi Dover, if that is true, and the DP100M is in the same league as the SP10MK3, P3a etc., then the Final must be one very special turntable!

I have never auditioned the DP100M, but have done so with the SP10MK3 and P3a, “lack of focus, shallow soundstage, mild attack, overly delicate transients and compressed dynamic range” are probably the last things I would say about these turntables, at least when auditioned on their own and not comparing to the Final.

Would love to audition the Final one day!

Thekong, You wrote, ..."if that is true, and the DP100M is in the same league as the SP10MK3, P3a etc.,"

That's one of the biggest "ifs" I have seen on this thread. First of all, Dover does not say what tonearm and cartridge were used to make the comparison of the DP100M to the Final.  Second, with all due respect to Dover, he is passionately in love with his Final (which is fine with me), but he does tend to try to prove its wonderfulness by verbal argument (which is hearsay evidence at best, IMO).  And third, I certainly don't think any of the aforementioned direct drive turntables is perfect, but, as you said too, these particular criticisms would not seem to apply to well set-up, properly restored and calibrated examples of the breed, no matter what. In fact, it's almost a list of why I prefer DD turntables I have kept in my system to belt-drive turntables I have tried and rejected.  On the other hand, Dover is the only person I know who has ever had a Final tt in his system; we cannot really know how a Final would stack up.  In sum, we don't have enough data to agree or disagree with Dover.  I personally do not at all care for the Denon DA307 tonearm, as supplied with the DP80 turntable. I don't know what tonearm is supplied on the DP100M, but if it is close cousin to the DA307, all bets are off.  Lack of focus and compressed dynamic range are, IMO, possible descriptions of the DA307.

Shane-rather than buying the Denon....I'd be more tempted to buy his TT-101 as a backup to mine. Knowing how thoroughly and beautifully re-built his Victor is...I suspect it may be the best TT-101 in existence...?🤗

You write this because you have concrete evidence to believe is the best, or are mere assumptions?

Dear @lewm : The 100M comes with its own tonearm that was designed in specific for the DP-100, so you can't mount it in the Final and I agree with halcro that those two cartridges that dover name it are not good enough ( I owned both and for good reasons I don't have it any more. ).

Not even we know the electronics and speakers and that gentleman MUSIC/sound priorities. That he was a TAS reviewer means almost that but nothing more and certainly not a guarantee about.

I think that as good as it's the P3a the DP 100M is a must to have too. I had the opportunity to listen it when was marketed in USA through the Laredo Denon distributor that was a very entushiast audiophile. Unfortunatelly was mto high of price for me but always like me as a very top contender against anything down there.

The Denon motor is truly special as no other because they took the same Denon cutting lathe motor they manufactured/marketed in those times.

@halcro , IMHO it does not matters what you can do in a TT-101 always will be an inferior unit to the stock DP-100. Thinking in different way can be only a misunderstood of what we are talking about. Maybe what some of you don't like on this Denon is that it's not much you can do to " play " with up-dates.

Btw, this is what tuchan posted about his unit:

"""  what I can say is the 100M with its surprisingly good arm provides an absolutely stunning sound. I will build an extra arm pod ..... """

Btw, the real " deal " for all those old times about the Final TT was that through its power supply it develops its own electrical needs and is not disturbed by the normal imperfections of a home electrical source. That's all.

In the other side, it's really a hard task to say which DD TTs between the P3a, LO70D or Denonn DP100 is really better. We have to have the same tonearm/cartridge in all of them to compare it and maybe what we will found out is that only performs a little different but not better one of the other. Who really knows?

What's clear for me is that we can't go wrong with either unit and no a vintage or today BD unit can't compete with.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R.

Btw, after the success of the DP-100 Denon designed the DP-X that in theory was even better uit but unfortunatelly never comes out to the market.

@halcro , I think that not even the 801 is in the Denon league.

R.