Class D = Trash?


So, I'm on my second class D amp. The first one, a Teac AI-301DA which claimed to use an ICE module, was unlistenable trash. I burned it in for a few weeks, it just couldn't perform, so I sent it back. Following that, I tried the new Emotiva A-300 (class A/B). It was significantly better, but lacking in too many ways for my tastes. So I changed gears, got an 845 SET from China -- and it was an immediate and massive improvement.

So, before I went further down the SET road, I wanted to try a better class D product using a modern class D module. I settled on the D-Sonic M3-800S with the Pascal module and custom input stage. I read from reviews that these things like to have big cables, so I picked up an eBay 8 gauge power cable (Maze Audio, el-cheapo Oyaide copy plugs, braided 4-wire cable) to go along with it.

Mid-range GONE.
Soundstage depth CRUSHED.
Euphonics DISAPPEARED.

Yes, resolution went up. Driver control went up, allowing me to play compressed rock/pop and orchestra with the speakers being able to render it all. But enjoyment in the sound is basically gone. Using my best power cable (LessLoss Original) improved performance, but didn't fundamentally change the amp's nature. I ran back to my headphones (Focal Utopias) to detox my ear canals.

So, how long does a class D need to burn-in? I want to give it a fair shake before writing the technology off forever. 
madavid0
May not be trash for long madavid0.


Class-D that can finally equal or better hi-end linear amplifiers, tube or S/S.

 It's closer than you think.

Why We'll Soon Be Living In A Class D World 

"In fact, that transistor technology is available today and is increasingly being used by manufacturers to create near perfect sound quality for Class D audio systems. The greater switching speed of Efficient Power Conversion's (EPC's) eGaN® FETs allow amplifier designers to increase PWM switching frequencies, reduce dead-time, and drastically reduce feedback; in turn, producing a sound quality previously limited to large, complex, heavy Class A amplifier systems. Further, this innovative high-speed switching technology has already disrupted myriad other industries, including telecommunications, medical, and automotive to name a few.  
A high-definition eGaN FET-based system with higher PWM switching frequency, reduced feedback, and higher bandwidth produces the sound that has the warmth and sonic quality that audiophiles demand; while actually improving upon the power efficiency of traditional Class D. Class A audio's historic lesser child Class D is coming of age with eGaN technology. And in the next decade, these systems will replace Class A technology, as well as the silicon MOSFET Class D systems in active use today. 

Significantly, audio manufacturers are taking notice and incorporating GaN-based Class D FETs in their systems. This is why, in another two or three years you will start seeing a slew of new Class D amps - ones based on GaN - rolling out to the market; and, for such varied uses as home theatre, car, boat, portable wireless speakers, along with high-fidelity home systems."  


Cheers George
I've heard Dusty's (Chanel Islands Audio) mono blocks a few times and was impressed by the sound. Very dynamic and musical. Most impressive was the power to weight and cost ration. Very affordable. 

http://www.ciaudio.com/

Not my cup of tea, as I much prefer the added realism provided by good tube gear. 

A good source tells me that Dusty has a giant killer phono stage about to be unleashed for under $1000.  I'd like to compare it with my ARC PH8 and write a review afterwards.

Frank


I use a Class D Classe Sigma AMP2 which works very well with my Audible Illusions L3A line stage preamp driving Martin Logan Ethos speakers. The Sigma seems to be very neutral to the music and inputs no signature sound. If more power is a requirement one can audition the Classe CA-D200. For me the sound is best when used with balanced ICs.
georgehifi,

Over six hundred years ago, adventurous explorers were looking for financial backing to sail west on the Atlantic from Europe to see what was out there and ,hopefully, discover new lands. At the time, early explorers limited their explorations to sailing around the coast of Africa always keeping the land in sight and never venturing out to open uncharted waters.
This is why these first explorers didn’t discover much beyond the trade routes from Europe to the East and back. The reason they were reluctant to venture out to uncharted waters and truly discover new things was because of the ’Flat Earth Theory’. The Catholic church was very influential around this time and it, along with other misguided opponents of scientific discovery, propagated the ancient unproven theory that the earth was flat and, if you sailed too far west, your ship and everything in it would eventually reach earth’s edge and fall off into God only knows what.
I mentioned the above because your ’Low Class D Switching Frequency Theory’ reminds me of the ’Flat Earth Theory’ in many ways:

1.Just as the ’Flat Earth Theory’ (FET) postponed some early explorers from discovering new lands, your ’Low Class D Switching Frequency Theory’ (LCDSFT) could possibly postpone some of the more gullible audio explorers among us from discovering new audio fidelity in their systems.

2.Just as the FET promotion kept explorers close to the safety of the shore for awhile, your LCDSFT promotion could keep some of the more gullible audio explorers among us close to the safety of traditional linear amps for awhile.

3.Just as the FET proponents used repeated claims of the false affects of an unproven theory to mysteriously prevent the advancement of scientific discovery, you use repeated claims of the false affects of your unproven LCDSFT to mysteriously prevent the advancement of system discovery.

4.There’s obviously more allegorical meat on this bone but I’m stuffed.

You never responded to my earlier questions, possibly from this or another thread, about whether there’s any scientific basis for your theory that current class D switching frequencies are too low and negatively affect the sound of class D amps in the audible range. You also failed to respond about whether or not you have personally heard any sonic anomalies in the sound of class D amps you’ve listened to.and, if so, whether you could describe what these sonic anomalies sound like.

When I first read about your theory, I perhaps foolishly listened to several very familiar and very high resolution (96kHz/24 bit) music files I have trying, as best I know how, to be hyper-critical of the sound quality in an effort to hear if there was any subjective evidence I could actually detect to determine whether your theory had any merit.
Well, after a few hours of failing to detect even a hint of a whiff of a scintilla of even a possible twinkle in the eye of even a single sonic anomaly, I decided it was safe to relax in the knowledge that my class D amps had no sonic anomalies in the audible range, at least that I could subjectively detect with my possibly tin ears.
Subsequently, I searched the internet for any scientific or even any subjective or anecdotal evidence in support of your LCDSFT and discovered there is zero scientific evidence to support your theory and the only subjective or anecdotal evidence I discovered was numerous google references of your thread postings here and on various other audio forums.
I find it hard to fathom why you have repeatedly made false claims of the false affects of an unproven theory on Audiogon and other audio forums.about class D amps. I tend to doubt you do it for some twisted personal version of fun and believe there must be some hidden motivation for someone to so diligently,consistently and repeatedly put forth the time and effort required, as you have, unless they personally judge achieving their mysterious goal as sufficiently motivating.

Don’t worry George Hi-fi, I doubt anyone expects you to actually reveal your hidden motivation or agenda.
Fortunately for current and future class D amp owners, repeated suggestions of non-existent sonic anomalies produced by their amps are not audible to any human I’m aware of.
Even in the infinitesimally small chance you’re theory actually has an iota of merit, the truth is if the thousands (millions?) of current class D amp users cannot hear these elusive, currently not to have been heard by human ears. very suspect and apparently extremely quiet sonic anomalies then they, by definition, do not exist.

Class D=Trash, my Ash!

Later,
Tim
I've always admitted Class-D is the future for hi-end, just not yet.
Very long winded post, but still can’t see the forest through the trees.
Read again and try to let it sink in.
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/1417196

Cheers George