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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
erik_squires
16,404 posts
 
@volleyguy 

The best bang for the buck, especially when modding inexpensive speakers has to be the Mundorf MKP capacitor. Dead quiet, superb microsonics, but yeah, they are dark.  Tonally the opposite of the Mundorf Supreme's. They are also pretty compact so usually can replace cheap film caps in a speaker without major board hacks.

At around $7 a cap, they are about 1/10th the cost of the Clarity CMRs we are discussing. Huge bargain.

The least value was the silver plated multi-stranded speaker connector cable (internal). Took a long time to break-in and when it did was just as good as the copper it replaced. :)
erik_squires
16,404 posts
 
I should have added, when making suggestions to new modders, I think the MKP is a great starter upgrade cap. If they can hear a difference with this cap then they are pleased and may look into more tweaks, or learn speaker /crossover design. If they can't, they  are usually out under $30 a pair.
erik_squires
16,404 posts
 
Well, the value proposition for me is a little different than for most purchasers as I make my own speakers. As such, based on driver quality, etc. I'm spending MUCH less than most buyers for the same.

So in terms of total speaker cost, yeah, the CMR seem expensive, but totally worth it, and balanced with the cost of the drivers and cabinetry. To me, the MR (bypassed) and CMR are among the best caps I've ever heard and probably the most expensive I can afford, so in that sense, they work for me. :)

I would love to be able to compare with some Jupiter or Duelund Cu caps, but that's about $700 / speaker here vs. $150 for Clarity CMR. If the CMR really is just as good as Jupiter, then I could make the argument that it is a huge bargain. :)

Best,


E
erik_squires
16,404 posts
 
Oops, sorry. the capacitor cost was just for the high-pass filter. :) There are more caps in the low-pass section, but they are using Clarity ESA's and no plan on changing them, with a copper-foil inductor.

So, $150 in caps for a $500 tweeter seems reasonable. However, there are far less expensive tweeters that may be very good and worth just as much in caps.

Best,

E
erik_squires
16,404 posts
 
This may be a good time to talk about speakers and value.

The _average_ speaker maker using off-the-shelf parts charges 10x the driver costs. So, $200/speaker = $400 x 10 = $4,000 finished cost. This is so rigid a lot of makers don’t want to use premium crossover compnents. To their credit, Magico and B&W do use pretty pricey parts in the crossover.

This is of course retail pricing. Assume 20-30% off for big bulk purchases, even if "custom."

If you make your own drivers, from scratch however you end up with an even better ratio, maybe 20-30x. That’s where the big money is. Focal and Monitor Audio are among the brands I’m thinking of. Make your cabinet out of pressed cardboard and it’s even cheaper. :)

BTW, I’m a huge Monitor Audio fan, I don’t mean to disparage them, just wanted to explain the biz end.

So, in all of this the best value really is the speaker kit. @pbnaudio makes really nice kits out of premium parts you get for a song compared to say, their Sony equivalents.

Best,


E
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