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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
erik_squires
16,407 posts
 
Oops, sorry. the capacitor cost was just for the high-pass filter. :) There are more caps in the low-pass section, but they are using Clarity ESA's and no plan on changing them, with a copper-foil inductor.

So, $150 in caps for a $500 tweeter seems reasonable. However, there are far less expensive tweeters that may be very good and worth just as much in caps.

Best,

E
erik_squires
16,407 posts
 
This may be a good time to talk about speakers and value.

The _average_ speaker maker using off-the-shelf parts charges 10x the driver costs. So, $200/speaker = $400 x 10 = $4,000 finished cost. This is so rigid a lot of makers don’t want to use premium crossover compnents. To their credit, Magico and B&W do use pretty pricey parts in the crossover.

This is of course retail pricing. Assume 20-30% off for big bulk purchases, even if "custom."

If you make your own drivers, from scratch however you end up with an even better ratio, maybe 20-30x. That’s where the big money is. Focal and Monitor Audio are among the brands I’m thinking of. Make your cabinet out of pressed cardboard and it’s even cheaper. :)

BTW, I’m a huge Monitor Audio fan, I don’t mean to disparage them, just wanted to explain the biz end.

So, in all of this the best value really is the speaker kit. @pbnaudio makes really nice kits out of premium parts you get for a song compared to say, their Sony equivalents.

Best,


E
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,541 posts
 
Agreed PBN kits look very interesting. Erik, what are your thoughts on the new Tekton Double Impact speaker design? Well respected posters here and reviewers are in agreement that they are as good as it gets. We have read this sort of thing many times on many pieces, but this speaker seems to be a possible outlier and perhaps a true deal of the century? I have not heard them, but admit they have me curious. I do have my doubts they are all that....
erik_squires
16,407 posts
 
Aesthetics aside....( vomits )...and based on just images...

Tweeter array:
Those look like SB Acoustics SB29RDCN tweeters. If so, they got them for a steal. Lots of SB Acoustic fans, they sure measure nicely!

I think the tweeter array is interesting, and used before in various incarnations, such as McIntosh like the XR100. This is again why I like large surface area tweeters like the AMT’s I use. They can control dispersion and give you amazing clarity and detail at the listening location.  That wearing headphones kind of feeling that seems to remove your listening room from the equation.  Interesting it is a 4-way design. Probably using the center tweeter as wide-band, while surrounding array is cut off below.

 I would want to know is whether there is any lobing from the array. Can you move around and hear a pleasant presentation or does it feel as if you are moving across a net of fabric in front of you?

What about smoothness? The current "high end" darling speakers are often dominated by rough, but exciting or bright treble. I’m thinking B&W, Focal, Golden Ear. Compare their treble to the best of Magico and you’ll understand my problem. If it really is an SB tweeter array this won’t be a problem.

Everything else:
Given the price, is the dynamic range of the speaker as a whole would be an important area to check. Static and thermal compression are big differences between high end drivers and cheap pretenders. How well do they play music at full scale in the bottom end AND how well do they play it for an entire song.

Overall, I think it’s a very smart use of technology and volume purchasing. :) I would absolutely give them a listen if this format and aesthetics were pleasing to you.

Best,

E
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Years ago I rebuilt my set of Dunlavy speakers with Vishay metal film resistors. Their top of the line in the mid 90's. These made more difference than any single part swap I ever made..tears of joy came into my eyes the difference was so huge. Cap swaps wire swaps inductor swaps were like so what ..when compared to the Vishay parallel resistor bridges. The new TX2575 nude Vishay resistors are even better now ..rated at .4 watts  .7 watts peak. If you want a power rating suitable for a speaker then you need to purchase 10 of each single value and wire these 10 in parallel to make a suitable power wattage. A 10 ohm resistor would be made up of qty.10   100 ohm resistors. Power rating would be 4 watts 7 watts peak. These are vastly under rated devices.  I use the Tx2575's all the way thu my mono blocs amps.

A 10 ohm resistor built as described would cost around a $100. Much better sound than the North Creeks or the Mills and better than the older Duelund's which I am told drop in value over the course of a few years. If $100 seems steep for a resistor check this out. http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/lefson-french-high-end-analog-audio-devices-the-lefson-... When I redo my current crossover and simplify,  I will be using the TX 2575's here as well. Tom

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