Jazz for aficionados

Frogman, the silence has been heard; it's time to move on forever more.

Not sure what the "forever more" part means, but as I said previously I think it’s time to move on. For me, perhaps it was last night’s performance of Shostakovich’s Symphony #5 that helped me let the dust of contention settle and move on to offer some thoughts on what you are asking, O-10. I don’t think that it takes much to understand that my reticence to respond had everything to do with the sarcasm embedded in your request (🍿); but, that’s ok....the healing power of music and in this case, Shostakovich.

The healing power of music is, I think, entirely relevant to the issue of "late-period Trane"; although there on a much larger and more important scale. I mentioned previously that I found a certain irony in all this. There is an even bigger irony in respect to the request for an "explanation" of late-period Trane in terms of the musical fact/details; especially when one considers that the rub (and now the request) seems to always be between the approach to listening that relies purely on the emotional (subjective/yin) and the approach that considers the factual (objective/yang). The reason that I find irony in this is that the truth is that there is really very little to talk about concerning the music details in factual terms. Late-period Trane is almost purely about emotion....that’s the irony. Of course, were there at least some interest on the part of some listeners in considering the factual, this would be perfectly clear...how can one recognize what isn’t there if one can’t recognize it when it is there?

What is this business about the healing power of music? The recording that was submitted for "analysis" as an example of late-period Trane (The Olatunji Concert) was his very last recorded performance and the second to last public performance. He was dying of liver cancer and would pass three months later. Much has been written and discussed here about Trane’s constant search for new sounds of expression as clearly documented in all the records that led up to this final recording (not officially sanctioned by his label Blue Note, btw). Many of those records lend themselves much more to analysis of the music details simply because there is much more there to analyze. His tune "Giant Steps" with its complicated and very fast changing harmonies has received more analysis than just about any other jazz tune that I can think of.

I think it can be fairly said that Trane was on a mission or quest for spiritual awakening; the most notable example of this being his recording "A Love Supreme" discussed here recently. Put this against the bigger and less personal backdrop of what was going on in American culture as a whole during that time... war, social upheaval and racial tension. If Trane’s music during this period is not the best example of the premise that great art reflects the time of its creation, I don’t know what is. As Schubert characterized him recently...a great artist.

Trane’s constant search led him to abandon just about every traditional notion of what music (jazz in this case) was. Dissonance and chaos, not the coziness of consonance and easily followed and understood musical lines and harmonies, ruled the day. Clearly difficult music for the listener to take in, but as far as I’m concerned the intensity of emotion and pain in the squeals and honks is obvious; and should not be surprising coming from an artist who was dying and had only three months to live; and knew it. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say that it was an attempt at self-healing through music. Now, the listener can (and many do) dismiss this music as simply mindless noise and screeching, but it would be a shame to do so, imo. I don’t listen to much late-period Trane. Not because I think it’s ugly, noise or bs; I just find too hard to take in on emotional grounds and almost disturbing. That’s one of the things that good art sometimes aims to do. Nothing wrong with bringing things down to simply "I like, or I don’t like"; as always, a personal call. However, I think that what gives our personal likes and dislikes relevance and meaning in the larger scheme of what art is all about requires that one consider things of this nature.

(Btw, and I’m sure you are aware of this, O-10, much of the blowing including the very first solo after Trane’s wonderful opening bluesy statement is not by Trane, but by Pharoah Sanders...there were two tenor players in that performance).

Frogman, I understood the music better than I understood your post.

Truth is, when you hear "ahead of his time" perk your ears up, you might just hear someone with one of the rarest of all human traits, the courage to be in his time .

"The sarcasm embedded in my request"? Could you expand that?


"Forevermore" means the opposite of what we're doing now; it meant let it rest until the devil starts looking for his long johns.


"How can one recognize what isn’t there if one can’t recognize it when it is there? Is that anything like the sound of one hand clapping?


"His tune "Giant Steps" with its complicated and very fast changing harmonies has received more analysis than just about any other jazz tune that I can think of."


What did "Giant Steps" have to do with this piece of music? This is not about John Coltrane, it's about "The Olatunji Concert".


Our debate began as a result of 3 minutes of extended improvisation that went past where most people wish it had stopped in the Winter of 63.


"However, I think that what gives our personal likes and dislikes relevance and meaning in the larger scheme of what art is all about requires that one consider things of this nature."


I have already considered it, I was asking for your consideration?



This is about this piece of music;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDiKea1r7sw&t=309s