Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp


Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.

During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.

My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.

My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.

I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.


128x128skyhawk51

Not wanting to restate Kevin’s comments, I’ll just try to add to them; I’m certainly not as succinct as he is as you can see by the length of this post. Before getting started with the listening, Kevin reminded us the purpose behind this shoot-out was simply to compare the three pieces of equipment and to do it in the spirit of fun and openness. And that’s just what happened. Kevin was a truly great host and he had nothing but good to say about ARC gear during the entire get together. He never tried to persuade us or nudge us in any direction.  As you can or may have read earlier in the thread, he even mentioned how good the ARC integrated sounded after being left on for a number of hours.

To start, Kevin used his IPhone to volume-match the three integrateds. I believe everyone thought this was a very important step to put all amps on an even playing field; secondly the same speaker wire and interconnects were used for all demo purposes keeping that game-field level. Kevin then proceeded to play the same Stevie Ray Vaughn track “unblinded” (Kevin’s term for us seeing the cable swap) through each of the integrated amps. After that first round, Kevin reminded us that someone in this thread asked that it be performed double blind. So he obliged and got out his official “double blind ” (and thickness!) Cardboard boxes and put them in up as walls in front of the amps for the next round. Everyone was asked to turn their heads away during the cable swap to each amp. Once Kevin played the same SRV track through each of the three integrateds, he asked for us to vote. Pretty simple – no smoke-n-mirrors or fast switches here.

I was genuinely surprised at the tallying of the votes; more voted for the less expensive Prima Luna integrated by a margin of two to one. Before I share my pick, I can tell you straight up, at least for me, that all three sounded more alike than dissimilar; better/worse, etc. For myself, I felt that both the VSi75 and the DiaLogue Premium HP sounded pretty similar. At times I felt that one was slightly better than the other. But really, there was no clear winner for myself, still I had to pick a winner. I had no horse in this race, I just voted based on sound. I did feel that the lower-priced DiaLogue Premium was not quite as good as the other two, but there was no huge chasm either, it was really quite small. So, in the end I picked the DiaLogue Premium HP in the blind test. It was hard to pick a winner, but then after Kevin disclosed the playing order, and taking into consideration the struggle I had to pick a personal winner, I also felt that the ARC integrated was very good as well. What got my vote was the DiaLogue Premium HP seemed to have a bit more air at times and the bass was a bit more controlled at times as well. But there was not a giant or even substantial difference between the top two. I know I could live with either integrated very happily. And yes, the HP wasn’t all that much better than its little brother the DiaLogue Premium, but at the price increment between the two, you’d second guess yourself every time you settled in to listen having purchased the lower-priced integrated; the price difference is worth it in my opinion.

And if all this were not enough, Kevin then took us back to his bench and took the covers off, so to speak, on both the HP and the VSi75 and explained what was going on inside. It was very interesting indeed. You could see the quality in both pieces and readily see the design philosophies of each company.

Finally, as a disclosure, I have no affiliation with Kevin or Upscale Audio, I’ve never been to his retail establishment, nor do I own any of the equipment listened to today or have any equipment made by those respective companies. I simply attended because I wanted to hear for myself the REAL difference between this gear; I was truly surprised at how little that turned out to be. –Kevin, I just want to say thank you. You’ve really shown how interested you are in good sound, so much so you took a part of your Saturday (and spent hours before in the week setting up) to share that all with us. I really appreciate that and I’m sure the other participants do to.

Tablejockey, your comments are appreciated and nice to have met you.
Hey pokey!
"Unblinded" Man, my memory is shot! What album is that cut on? 
I only have Texas Flood and Couldn't stand the Weather.

As pokey has stated, everything sounded more alike than dissimilar.

 What's next? PL HP separates vs ARC reference? May I submit my RSVP now?

Awesome post, responses and great follow-up by everyone as well as Kevin.  A special thanks to Kevin for setting that up and posting for all us to read about the results. 

It seems like the takeaway is the Primaluna product is a solid bet with tons of value--exactly why I bought it!  
It was a learning experience for me too, mainly because I found that it needed to be done blinded as it's one less thing to think about during listening.  

The HP is better than the DiaLogue Premium, that's for sure.  The amps are exactly the same internally except the HP has a larger power transformer, a second Adaptive AutoBias board, four more power tubes, and the headphone capability.  

Doing this test I learned that customers do like KT150's since the $3399 DiaLogue equipped with them got the most votes.  While that's an expensive upgrade it's a LONG TERM upgrade.  The plate voltage and biasing is so easy in PrimaLuna's they go forever.  I have KT120's with over 5,000 hours on them that test at 90% of new.  My KT150's at home get used a LOT and after two years they test at 90%.  But the uptick is small, and I LOVE EL34's!   

As to comparing a DiaLogue Premium pre and HP amp to an ARC...I only have an LS26 and LS27 trade in here.  I have a VT100 MKIII that needs repair but it's not even close to being current.  If anybody has an amp they want to drag over they are welcome to.   I did not want this to be "us vs them" and I don't want people pissed at me.  

I'm leaving for France this week and will be gone until August 14th.  I'm touring the Focal factory and that's supposed to be AMAZING. Then I meet with the people from PrimaLuna for a couple weeks.   

I hope you guys downloaded that Taste of Tubes thing I linked to.  
I find the results, based on my own experiences in this hobby, not too surprising in the least. What I have personally observed over my years comparing different components is not how they might differ in a "love me or leave me" comparison but over a sustained period of familiarity. Not withstanding this it is really nice to know there are great lower priced alternatives to esteemed and proven higher priced American made for the budget minded consumer. Good job and well done to all the participants.