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What sounds best: Vinyl or CDs

My system in an introductory level of high end music reproduction, I realize.  I like music, not so much gadgetry so I am content, although I keep tweeking from time to time trying to get better sound.  Martin Logan ESL mains, Def. Tech 800 subs (2),  NAD C375BEE Int. Amp, Project Debut Carton turntable w/Ortofon Red cartridge, Yamaha S300 CD player (with a Rega Apollo R player on order),  Niagara 1000 power conditioner. My question/concern is this:  My CDs sound Sooo much better than my vinyl albums.  My vinyl collection is substantial, from the '60s through the '80s, with all in great condition.  But on my system CDs are more volume sensitive, with more dynamics and depth.  Is this normal or am I missing something in my system?  I had originally thought, "Oh well, they are 40+ years old with 40+ year old recording technology".  But is there more? I have even gone to point of buying the CD if there is a particular vinyl I want to listen to frequently.  Comments?
128x128chipito
nordicnorm
313 posts
 
It's much cheaper to get decent sound from a CD player than an analog rig (all things being equal). A badly recorded or mixed album sounds like crap on CD AND vinyl.

You don't mention it, so I'm assuming that you are using the optional  PP375 MC/MM phono module?

From the info posted, I'd say your weak points are your phono stage and cartridge.

I listen to vinyl, CD, SACD, and DSD files to take advantage of the best of all worlds.

My vinyl rig can compete with my SACD/CD player (Esoteric DV-50S) in sound quality but it is 3x as expensive.

tgrisham
1,291 posts
 
I believe that rooms should be set up for vinyl or Digital and it's very hard to set them up perfectly for both. Because of the compression inherent in vinyl it is necessary to adjust the speakers accordingly. Also, you will never eliminate the noise inherent in vinyl. Surface noise is a problem even in the best systems. I listen to vinyl when I don't have the digital form of that recording but the wide dynamic range, silent background and the ability to shape the music digitally, and the convenience make me turn to digital 90% of the time. You have to spend a lot more money for perfectly pressed albums than digital and superb analog equipment is more expensive. Either way, just enjoy the music! 
mikelavigne
2,200 posts
 

my opinion used to be different.

i'm listening to the Tilson Thomas-SF Symphony Mahler 5th right now, in 24-96 PCM off my hard drive through the MSB Select II/SGM server right now. on the 5th Movement. had the lights down and was kicking back for the first 4 movements. I'm no Mahler expert or even Classical expert (so no flames about the Tilson Thomas version sucking ).

it's been involving and a satisfying musical experience and kept my attention.

nothing flat or lacking nuance or micro-dynamics about this. lots of action and great separation, space, realism and authority. I listen to lots of classical on the Select II. the Select II and SGM server are both pretty top level kit.

Friday night I had a few serious analog focused guys over and we listened to quite a bit of digital; mostly string quartets, and classical piano. they were quite amazed at the natural, spacious and focused presentation. one of them is a classical composer and music professor. he was especially taken with a redbook Haydn String Quartet and the sound staging and natural tone.

can Lps still be better? sure they can but not by as much as you might think.......but don't blame the digital format for the apparent significant difference between cd and lp, it's the particular digital playback systems that are lacking. my vinyl playback is up there in the higher realm too......but still the digital gets closer.

at the top of the playback food chain, top level digital/redbook/CD's can get fairly close to top level vinyl.......but below that it's a crap shoot. I would say a more modest vinyl investment will generally take you quite a bit farther than a similar digital investment, but there are no real hard and fast rules for it. there are giant killer vinyl set-ups with perfect set up, and giant killer digital too......that flip things around. and then there is always the issue of personal preference.

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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
I have found that Benchmark DAC 3 sounds like the best I ever heard from vinyl without all the limitations of Vinyl (pops, clicks, hiss) - out of the box and with no Singer SU-1 or any other treatments. I was surprised about the not so subtle improvement from the previous gen DAC2 - mostly down to the new Sabre chip I suspect. I am interested if other users of the most recent round of DACs with newer chips are finally satisfied that digital is now the equal of the very best vinyl. Of course not every recording is the best in digital - nor is everything available in digital - so vinyl still should be part of any serious collectors armoury and I did not say digital exceeds the very best vinyl sound - just I feel it is on par.

Oh and Mahler is amazing stuff....my favorite is the interpretation by Benjamin Zander - perhaps not he best recordings but I know Benjamin and he puts everything into his work and has amazing motivational skills in bringing out the best in the entire orchestra.

Ben's book (which he gave me) "The Art of Possibility" is accessible and a great read...




mikelavigne
2,200 posts
 

with all due respect; generalizations about ’noise’.....pops, clicks, hiss’ from vinyl are not different than generalizations about digital sounding edgy or flat.

these are not inherent format characteristics, they are artifacts of less than stellar execution of the formats.

my digital is fully natural and analog sounding in a good way.

and except for the lead in and lead out grooves (where you want a bit of noise) and between tracks there are almost never pops, clicks, hiss or noise in my vinyl.

does it take some effort and investment to find great sounding digital and vinyl? of course, but don’t blame the formats for flaws of the gear or set-up.

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