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What sounds best: Vinyl or CDs

My system in an introductory level of high end music reproduction, I realize.  I like music, not so much gadgetry so I am content, although I keep tweeking from time to time trying to get better sound.  Martin Logan ESL mains, Def. Tech 800 subs (2),  NAD C375BEE Int. Amp, Project Debut Carton turntable w/Ortofon Red cartridge, Yamaha S300 CD player (with a Rega Apollo R player on order),  Niagara 1000 power conditioner. My question/concern is this:  My CDs sound Sooo much better than my vinyl albums.  My vinyl collection is substantial, from the '60s through the '80s, with all in great condition.  But on my system CDs are more volume sensitive, with more dynamics and depth.  Is this normal or am I missing something in my system?  I had originally thought, "Oh well, they are 40+ years old with 40+ year old recording technology".  But is there more? I have even gone to point of buying the CD if there is a particular vinyl I want to listen to frequently.  Comments?
128x128chipito
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 

with all due respect; generalizations about ’noise’.....pops, clicks, hiss’ from vinyl are not different than generalizations about digital sounding edgy or flat.

these are not inherent format characteristics, they are artifacts of less than stellar execution of the formats.

my digital is fully natural and analog sounding in a good way.

and except for the lead in and lead out grooves (where you want a bit of noise) and between tracks there are almost never pops, clicks, hiss or noise in my vinyl.

does it take some effort and investment to find great sounding digital and vinyl? of course, but don’t blame the formats for flaws of the gear or set-up.

shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Mike,

I agree - "very best vinyl" is when it all comes together - pristine wax and a great setup - and I can only comment based on what I have heard which won't be anything close to SOTA vinyl.

Red Hot Chili Peppers usually sounds better on Vinyl because of that harsh edgy sound from digital limiting (compression) done in the Mastering by hot mastering engineers - another example of "equipment not at fault" but misuse of the medium results in a poor quality recording nonetheless.

DAC 3 is a modest investment compared to the effort you have gone to - and not having heard your setup I can only guess it is at another level altogether - both vinyl and digital.

For mere mortals I think it is encouraging that recent DACs are both affordable (Gustard X20 Pro) and really close to the best vinyl....
tablejockey
3,888 posts
 
chipito- your table setup is fine to experience playing a record, but far from a level to ask "what’s better?"

One does need to commit a minimum $ level to reach that point. Where it is, probably can be debated with no conclusion.

This thread starts at a good level$
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/your-choice-tt-arm-stage-cartridge-5000-budget.

This however, won’t live up to its potential without an equal level support staff-amp/speakers....


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rauliruegas
13,050 posts
 
Dear @mikelavigne : Certainly you are a reference for me and more than two years ago I remember that you posted something very similar on the digital great source quality:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/interesting-project-started-by-michael-fremer/post?postid=126...

The digital technology is in advance almost every single day ( as computers or cell phones. ). It's an explosive alternative as was in its times the analog experience.

In true is imposible for analog competes bis a bis with digital. Analog is full of non-salvable limitations that comes inherent part of the analog experience rigth from the recording process and obviously through all the playback process in each one audio system.

No one of us can't do nothing to modify what's in the recording but only through the whole playback proccess where at least we need to try that every kind of generated/developed distortions been " set-up " at minimum and this is the best we can do. We just can't improve what's in the recording only try that the audio signal be degraded at minimum through the overall playback proccess with both technologies. 

Trade-offs exist always through digital and analog and like you said our each one preferences play an important role in what we like to hear.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 

Dear Raul,

thanks for the kind words. that recording I mentioned 2 years ago is now available as a Quad dsd download here;

http://store.acousticsounds.com/a/31898/Ilya_Itin_Debussy

it’s is an outstanding piano recording, no doubt, if you can play Quad dsd files.

as far as distortions and vinyl, I don’t think it’s much different than digital. neither is absolutely perfect. and anyway; numbers never really tell the whole story, maybe they point us to important things but are not the proof. it’s our ears and our feelings.

for the last few years I’ve done lots of investigations as to what is possible with digital playback (both dacs and servers), and I have found my digital answer which does get into the realm of top level vinyl in most aspects of the presentation. the MSB Select II dac combined with the SGM server has been revelatory to me. and it’s that way with every format and resolution. truly a break through type product.

the best vinyl is still better and does go farther down the same road. but not that much better.

best regards,

Mike


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