2. amps-preamps
  3. 130671-3105

Sonic qualities of SET output tubes?

Can you readily identify a 300B, 2A3, 805, 211, etc., amp’s sound with your eyes closed most of the time?


If so, I’sure would like to hear from you.


Amplifier design and the technology utilized within its confines decides the ‘voice’ or influence it will yield as much or more so than merely the output tubes the designer has chosen to use.


I get that part emphatically. One must hear the amp regardless the type of output tube technology on hand.


And yes, some Pentodes and Tetrodes are used as Triodes but are not indeed triodes by their specific architecture. That’s OK, just focus on their use as Triodes herein, please.


There are however certain tube types, irrespective of vintage which have basic undeniable sonic colors or characteristics, apart from their electrical aspects which keep attracting people to amps which use this or that tube in its output stage.


Some love 211s. some adore 300Bs. Some love EL34s configured to run as Triodes. I have an affinity for the latter. So far anyway. This topic could change my mind.


Has your own experience informed you what this or that output tube’s natural flavor regularly announces itself to be so you can have a reasonable expectation of its general presentation?


What sonic attribute continually attracts you to a particular SET tube design, 300B or some others?


Or, conversely, what is it about the sound that would bring you to covet a 211 amp over a 2A3, for example.


Why as another example, would you pick a 2A3 amp over one using 805s or 300B, 211, etc. or vice versa?


Removing ‘vintages’ and electronic or electrical qualities from the argument, what sonic attributes for the more popular S.E.T. amp output tubes have you determined seem to persist in their particular DNA?


I’m asking for input from those SET tube devotees to lend their experiences and knowledge on the subject of what tube sounds like what irrespective of the SET application, generally speaking.


My goal is to try getting a better feel for which SET Tube amp design, if any, I’d want to pursue and possibly invest heavily into going forward as the soul of a new system.


Tremendous thanks to all!

blindjim
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Bill,
Yes, you may see a pair of the Total Eclipse for sale once in a blue moon. Your TV II were a complex design relatively speaking. 4 way, 3 crossovers, 9 drivers( mixture of brands as well) I  believe including ribbon tweeter.

In contrast the TE was a simpler 3 way with minimalist crossover, 5 drivers (all Scanspeak) just fewer parts and more straight forward. Really two different concepts in a sense. There’s only a single capacitor at the tweeter and no resistor at that site.I replaced the stock Solens with the Duelund CAST (that you recommended years ago, thanks 😊). Just beautiful sound.
Charles
audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,201 posts
 
Having just getting a custom SET - DHT preamplifier the Russian 4P1L
Tube used for amplifiers as well as preamplifier is considered by many possible 
The most linear tube . Granted it can be microphonic if not built properly but
Radu Tarts has built many pieces of gear. My preamp has 0 coupling caps 
Lundahl Transformers snd chokes  and only Munfotf 4pole csps snd bypassed 
Khozmo relay based shunt volume . This SET preamp is the best I have had and I have owned many $$ well respected models .which gave several gain stages.
SET amps,and preamp only have one amplified stage then output That's It !!
You will hear what's on the recording . With the Amplifier low power is the only limitation ,the preamp has no dynamic limitations $2-5k is the average for a custom  built preamp.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,518 posts
 
Audioman58, could not find this builder doing a Google search? 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Bill (Brownsfan)
Your experiences written about above are an illustrative example of amplifier and speaker matching. The Coincident Frankenstein was "sublime " driving your Triumph Extreme speakers. This indicates that the Triumph Extreme and the Total Eclipse have very similar speaker load characteristics. You said the Frankenstein didn’t struggle at all driving the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme (so again presumably similar load characteristics).

The Super Victory II it seems is a more challenging load and obviously benefits by matching the higher power Atma-Sphere MP 60s.
Have you tried the M 60s with the easier load Triumph Extremes?

I’m assuming that the M 60s and the Coincident Statement Line Stage are getting along just fine. I did the reverse, I heard my Frankenstein with the Atma-Sphere MP-1 preamplifier. It was a wonderful combination.
P.S.
I hope you’re still enjoying the Tennessee mountains and hiking trails 😊
Charles
brownsfan
1,508 posts
 
Charles, your comment is spot on.  My preference for the M-60s in my application is by no means any kind of dis on the Franks.  They are just not the right amps for the Super Victory IIs.  I have not tried the TEs with the M-60s.  Doing an A/B using the Franks and the M-60's to drive the TEs would be an interesting experiment.  The M-60s and the CSL pre are doing just fine together.  Ralph urged me to keep my speaker cables short, which means the CSL is driving a 5M pair of balanced ICs.  I am not sure I have everything optimized quite yet, but inserting the M-60s into the upstairs rig was a large step forward.  Eventually, the Franks will go into the downstairs system.  The hiking is going very well.  July was really hot, so I backed off quite a bit, but even so I have about 550 miles in for the year so far.   I should hit 1000 for the year.  
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