Bluesound Node 2 vs. Auralic Aries Mini

Celo,

I've found that the Aries Mini does seem to sound better, more detailed and more extended. My guess is that it's due to advances in network chips and clocking causing fewer errors and better data throughput. The SBT was a cool product that Logitech decided to abandon, so it never was updated any further. Still perfectly viable, but I think newer technology like the Aries Mini is better. The only constant in the digital world is change, and that change happens much faster than we usually like or expect!

dlcockrum,

Let's be clear, I am not discounting the fact that different cables can sound different, what I'm trying to discern is why that would be the case. Keep in mind that the operative word is "IF".... IF the data structure is exact at both ends of a cable, IF the cable allows said data to clock in at the proper time, IF the cable ensures that data voltage levels are consistent and correct, then no other cable can improve on the audible results. If the data is correct, it's correct. Differences can be had past the receiver/transmitter chip in whatever device you use, like in a digital filter, DAC, oversampling system, etc., but a digital cable can't change the sonics UNLESS it's changing the content of the data in some way. That said, it's very possible that is happening, but it's interesting that there are so many different manufacturers with different USB cables at different price points; how are they manipulating that data stream to get different results? That's my question. And, how do we know when a cable does get the data right versus when it doesn't? Are we really hearing "improvement" or just something "different?

By the way, this question should be the same with any digital transmission standard, be it USB, CAT5, CAT6, S/PDIF, whatever. A digital signal being transmitted must ultimately be converted back to an analog output at some point when we're talking about audio. Each of those has an industry accepted standard that must be adhered to. Now, are the standards themselves not able to hold muster with the data they are transmitting, or are we playing with bit streams within cables to "filter" for a particular sound profile? In practice, no digital transmission is without error, that's why there's error correction all over it. But, in the end, how do we ensure that have the best way of ensuring that a digital data stream is as bit perfect as it can bee at the input of a DAC? That's what matters.

Dogmcd,

Glad you found something you like! You are correct, the equipment on offer today is much better than the SBT. I had one too and would find it hard to go back since so much has changed. I was the first one to be surprised at the resurgence of vinyl. With how far digital technology has come I would have thought that record albums would not last.... boy was I wrong! But in the end what is the problem with all the different flavors of audio coexisting? From the Bose Wave radio to MBL audio systems, I say there is room for it all. I mean to say, in the end, we all luv music therefore we might better serve ourselves by listening more to the music....  and getting enjoyment out of what we are using today.

We cannot be sure that we will get bit perfect digital data streams, but we may get enough to enjoy the music.

I try to avoid calling out products just because they didn't sound good in my system. I do think my system is incredibility accurate and telling, but that doesn't matter as it isn't the same tuning as your own. 

But I do have a tidbit regarding Ethernet cables: In discussions with my personal cable builder (that my associates help support), it was found that CAT 7 & 8 use a shield on each of the separate wires running through the cable. We believe that this causes more inductance and combined noise. And my personal testing of CAT 7 and the one CAT 8 make me believe this is true. CAT 6 uses only one shield for the whole cable bundle.

So we build our own CAT 6 with a late version of the product that has naturally good "sonic" attributes. It is cyro treated  with our own specifications as it takes a lot more knowledge to accomplish than just getting the material adequately cold. The connectors are special too, costing about $40 wholesale (each end), minimum order of 10 for each end at the same time/order.

I don't sell cables myself and our little "club" of local Denver audio nuts is a bit different. But based upon what I know, I wouldn't spend real money on CAT 7 or 8.  I do think it is interesting that a cable can carry video data at double the rate of the highest resolution TV, but is effectively awful for digital music, at least in my system. Bill

Hi dogmcd,

I appreciate your clarification of your questions concerning the causals for audible differences in digital cables. I will try to stay with what I have learned from cable masters so far.

Re: Ethernet cables, the ultimate speed of transmission and the elimination of data loss/corruption is the key, as well as the elimination of RF/EMI noise riding on the signal. This is true of not only the wires but also of the connectors used. Some top manufacturers use networks (SOtM for example) to eliminate noise from the signal.

Re: USB cables, if the data packet is corrupted when it reaches the DACs asynchronous USB input, the packet is simply dropped and data is lost. Efforts are made to reduce causes of data packet corruption in the better designs.

Also, the way that the 5v power conductor associated with USB cable technology is isolated also plays a key role, ie the quality/effectiveness of isolation of the 5v signal from the wires carrying the digital signal to avoid transferring noise from the former to the latter. Galvanic isolation is frequently used for this purpose.

Purist Audio even uses a "specially selected" Ferrite choke in the 5v wire (not the actual signal cable as that is a no-no IME) to further eliminate stray noise from the 5v power lead reaching the actual digital signal by soaking it up while still in the 5V conductor path.

Elimination of RF/EMI penetration to the signal in USB cables is also a determinant as in the ethernet cable above.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Also, within DACs there is a process where the 1) noise, RF/EMI, etc coming in on the digital data stream and is (hopefully) cleaned up a bit and 2) the bits are reconstructed to simulate an analog waveform in order to output an analog signal to the downstream analog audio gear. If there is data loss detected during the digital-to-analog waveform reconstruction process, algorithms are applied to try to interpolate (artificially replace) missing data in order to complete the affected slice of the waveform.

The more of 1) that the DAC has to deal with, the more that will slip through (nothing’s perfect) and effect the signal in the DACs digital/analog circuitry, thus degrading the sound.

The more of 2), the more artificial interpolation due to data loss upstream. This is an imperfect process and can audibly effect the sound quality that results.

Re: "the difference in sound character" of different digital cables can be influenced by the metallurgy of various metal conductors, the dielectric chosen, shielding (or not) and cable construction techniques to further eliminate noise, the integrity/efficiency of the binding of conductors to connectors, and perhaps most importantly IMO, the resulting impedance match/mismatch imposed on upstream and downstream components.

Dave