VPI 2nd Pivot for 3D

..just a suggestion for those setting up the 2nd pivot. Attach the gizmo to the arm, but don’t let the 2nd pivot touch....just unscrew the adjustment until it doesn’t make contact. Use the Fozgometer, and then adjust the meter by very slowly screwing down the adjustment screw. When you get the ideal - only a bit off.... use very little adjustment to perfect the result.

...and another discovery with the 2nd pivot.  This may or may not be true...true in MY system.  When releasing the cuing device, if the Azimuth is spot on, the arm will be lowered straight onto the leadin groove.  If off, even a bit......the arm veers off course.

Hi All-
  The VPI Prime is on my short list for purchase and hence my interest in this thread. Not sure how well I can steer my way through what is “fake news” here & what isn’t.

  In regard to the topic of the 3D arm/ cart stability issues I will throw out some of my questions related to solutions in that matter. I don’t have much of a background here but I have no shortage of questions after all I’ve read to date.

  First, I’m interested in thoughts on the effect of adding the Townshend (silicone) fluid filled damping trough to the Prime 3D single pivot or dual pivot arm on the issue of cart/arm stability. Could this be a solution? See these articles: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue62/townshend.htm  & http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/townshend-audio-rock-7-turntable-tas-209/  Here are some highlights/claims taken from the articles.
* The damping trough can be added to any arm tonearm you want to stop from vibrating
* The outrigger assembly insures intimate contact between the paddle and the cartridge, and damps the undesirable perturbations right at the headshell, while allowing the cartridge to follow the groove modulations accurately.
* The front-end damping in effect disconnects the cartridge’s behavior from the arm’s behavior in good part.
* The trough-damping gives a solidity to the sound.
* The front-end damping reducing, effectively short-circuiting, most of the effect of the arms own resonances.
* The trough-damping gives a solidity to the sound.
* The bass becomes more solid and the whole more tightly controlled and stable.

  Second, again in an effort to improve stability & relieve vibration, using the “periphery ring clamp” & “center weight clamps” in addition to or not addition to the silicon Townshend trough. I had a good independent VPI Prime reviewer address the effectiveness of the periphery ring clamp used alone who stated the positive audible improvement to the sound but I can’t find the link, & I sent so much time looking. But, this link maybe referencing the link I’m trying to find:  https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-turntable-outer-ring-for-vpi-clearaudio-basis-kronos-hanss-rega-sota-music-linn-2017-08-04-accessories . Wayne’s makes aftermarket ring clamps which also have a centering devise to align the record. He makes the following statements.
* The ring effectively removes record resonance and noise by up to 40%.
* This is a huge improvement in dynamics, detail retrieval ,complete low-frequency control, 10 db plus in background noise reduction, up to 50% improvement SRA tracking. These all result in reference level vinyl playback.

Third, I understand that VPI does not believe? in the use of anti-skate (A/S) but the Prime is provided with a mechanism to enable A/S. I also see no reference for use of A/S on the “Rock 7” Townshend TT using the damping trough, nor see a way to enable it with this product. My interest here would be A/S use on the 3D Prime arm using the center & ring clamps with the Townshend damping trough using either the single or dual pivot. What effect would this combo of trough & weights have on the VPI Prime, could it alleviate any of the problems which this threat has addressed? And, would A/S be a probable necessary tweak necessary?

  From my reading of a number of Prime reviews I’ll say this. I’ve seen cartridge manufactures recommend the “dual pivot” for use with there specified carts given to reviewers for their use during Prime reviews. I think the manufacturers suggesting better sound using the dual pivot. I also get the impression that most reviewers and audiophiles don’t necessarily hear a difference in sound quality by switching between single & dual pivot but rather it’s a usage issue. Some people being afraid they will damage the arm when using the single pivot, but feeling more confidence when using the dual pivot. This is just my “impression” of what I remember after reading these reviews. “I know nothing” as Sgt. Shultz would say.

robes,

Hello. You've hit on a few things I thought no one would ever relate to but me. I'm a Townshend Rock 7 owner and a long time VPI owner.

I have a long term TT project in play. One of my thoughts was to integrate the Townshend trough into my own design. (Frankly, it should be incorporated into more designs.)

As far as integrating it into a Prime (unipivot arm), I would think it could only help. Your "Third" potential preference is a complete unknown. This is what makes this hobby fun! I hope you find a way to make it happen.

My current preference with my Rock 7 and using "flat records", I find using no clamp or weight brings me closer to the music. I own and have used VPI delrin clamp, VPI SS center weight, BDR two-piece clamp, Stillpoints LP-1, among others in several situations within my 3 tt combinations. I like a flat record with no clamp. This is in conjunction with my 1mm thick platter mat and the Funk Firm Achromat (used together.)

Look forward to your thoughts.

What damping does is to stabilize the arm....the exact result of adding the VPI second pivot.