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Why is good, deep bass so difficult? - Myths and their Busters

This is a theme that goes round and round and round on Audiogon. While looking for good sources, I found a consultancy (Acoustic Frontiers) offering a book and links:

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/guide-to-bass-optimization/?utm_source=CTA

Interestingly: AF is in Fairfax, CA, home to Fritz Speakers. I really have to go visit Fairfax!

And a link to two great articles over at sound and vision:

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-2

Every audiophile who is dissatisfied with the bass in their room should read these free resources.

Let me state unequivocally, deep bass is difficult for the average consumer. Most audiophiles are better off with bass limited speakers, or satellite/subwoofer systems. The former limits the danger you can get into. The latter has the most chance of success IF PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED.

The idea that large drivers/subs are slow is a complete and utter myth. Same for bass reflex. The issue is not the speed of the drivers. The issue is usually that the deeper a speaker goes the more it excites room modes, which the audiophile is then loathe to address.

Anyway, please read away. I look forward to reading comments.
erik_squires
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soundscience
16 posts
 
Gentlemen,

I  agree whole heartedly with Duke's comments from Audiokinesis and would like to point out if you don't want to do room treatment and have the budget you should try out the Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 with Room Perfect ($4000 to $5000 depending on options). This includes a world class DAC and electronic crossover network at the base price.
Now I admit I am a dealer for Lyngdorf and will financially benefit if you purchase one from me, of course, the upside to you will be the best possible sound your system can provide, It is easy to use and when you are old and feeble you will still be able to pick it up and move it.
I do have some lucky customers with Duke's swarm and the Lyngdorf and they are perhaps the happiest of all. Smooth bass as low as it can go.

Neal Van Berg
www.soundsciencecat.com




cousinbillyl
190 posts
 
I didn't read this entire thread. If this point has been made, then consider this a +1.

A long time ago I did a lot of reading. One of my favorite sites was www.humblehomemadehifi.com . Tony G said it plainly, and often; for tight impactful bass, you must use a cored low Rdc inductor. 

I use the Mundorf Zero Ohm types.

Why don't manufacturers use them? They're anywhere from $200.00 to $500.00 each (depending of size). Since we need one in each speaker, this means $400.00 to $1,000.00 just for the inductors. Are you kidding me. These dollar values constitute the entire crossover cost, if not less.

If you own a 3-way or a 4-way, take the leap. Open up the speaker, get the large inductor value, and order them. Yes the lower resistance will shift the crossover slightly, but the gains will be huge.
cerrot's avatar
cerrot
1,700 posts
 
Without bass eq, unless you are in a anechoic chamber, the bass notes will smear the other bass notes, and coherency is impossible, which is essential to good, clean, deep bass.  
skanda
60 posts
 
This has been an incredibly informative thread. I have a small listening area and use monitors and while I don't have _too_ many bass issues, i do have a node somewhere around 50-60hz. For some practical reasons, I would like a floor stander in my room. Have any of you used sealed speakers - something like magico comes to mind. I am not asking for speaker recs/reviews and don't want to derail this thread...My question is simply, do sealed speakers integrate better into these rooms? Wish I could do an in-home demo to test but that's not an option currently.
harrylavo's avatar
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harrylavo
346 posts
 
I agree with audiokinesis.  I have used Thiel 3.5's for years, which with their equalizer are flat down to 16-20hz.  The ultimate bass system: 4 or 5 of these in an ITU multichannel configuration.  Virtually all room nodes are eliminated.  Two of them in stereo, because Jim Thiel designed them for optimum sound in a very room-friendly design, can generally be positioned in a room to minimize their room-node response and at the same time, excellent stereo soundstaging..

Equally important, study the basics of sound physics so you know what you are doing/looking for, and if in a general living area, use furniture, curtains, bookshelves, etc to serve as sound modifiers and even psuedo-bass traps.  Good smooth bass can be done, but not in ignorance.  It requires knowledge and experimentation and a willingness to find the proper speaker locations and then design the remainder of the room layout around that.
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