Amp recommendation and setup advice please


Hello,

I love music and I adore quality sound - I cannot listen to music on ordinary speakers/devices.

I have been trying to do my research on sound systems/speakers/amps etc.. and learn/understand the whole shebang, but I'm not that much of a tech head. 

I want to buy the Klipsch RF-7 II tower speakers (I think they are passive, hence requiring an amp). 

I want them for both my new TV and also the vinyl/turntable setup I am going for, which is as follows:

Turntable - ProJect Debut Carbon Premium with Ortofon 2M RED (cartridge)
Phono (pre-amp) - ProJect Phono Box DS
Speakers - as above
Subwoofer - thinking either Klipsch R-12SW or R112SW
Amp - ??

I have a few questions:

1. Am I on the right tracks for having all the essentials?
2. Can someone recommend a good amp to power my speakers and sub please, and does the sub need powering or does it have it's own amp? 
3. Do I need a DAC for TV and connection to laptop? If so can you recommend a good one please? I was thinking of Audioengine D1 Premium 24 bit DAC Interface Connector.
4. Please suggest any alternative products if any of the stuff I mentioned are no good or don't fit together that well.
5. How would I set all of this up? Do I need anything else?
6. Do I need more speakers? I'm worried that the sub may be too much bass and drown out the tower speakers. 

I apologise for my lack of knowledge - I've just signed up here because I read that I could get advice and guidance from enthusiasts and experts. I know that my questions and post may frustrate some of you as I may have made some rookie mistakes, and perhaps this type of post has been done a 100 or so times but wasn't sure how to get answers/help. 

Many kind thanks in advance!

Mo
laher
Thanks again all for your input. 

auxinput:
The sources for TV will just be satellite, no Bluray or DVD. Those Elac B6 speakers seem like a great choice, and I assume you mention them because they are better than the Audioengine A5+ speakers? Could you also recommend a good AV receiver to go with them please?

Thanks for the advice on posting in other forums. I'll do that for the phono preamp and DAC. But thanks for recommending the Gustard X20 Pro. Before I move the phone preamp to another forum, I'd appreciate your recommendation on a good one to suit.

I know speakers are personal and everyone says I should go and listen, but I don't know of any decent hi-fi store that has these types of speakers and equipment to check out. 

toddverone:
Those Peachtree Audio amps look amazing. I'll take a deeper look to see if any have built in phono preamp. Thanks for suggesting. 

mesch:
Thanks for the integrated amp recommendation. And yes I have definitely decided to keep the TV and music systems separate. How does the Yahama 801 compare to the Parasound Halo? 

auxinput, same question to you?

If the sources for the TV will be satellite only, then you don't necessarily need an HDMI processor/receiver.  Satellite will always be compressed dolby digital, so you can go old-school.  Even if you add on DVD/bluray, old-school digital COAX is still excellent.

The ELAC are excellent speakers for the money.  They are passive speakers (require amplifier).  The AudioEngine A5+ are powered speakers (amp built in).  I don’t know anything about that product.  However, if you are looking at powered speakers, I would recommend taking a look at the Emotiva AirMotive series.  The AirMotive 5s are $499 (only 100 dollars more).  They have better amplifiers (2x50 watts for each speaker instead of 1x50).  The two internal amps power the woofer and tweeter individually.  The tweeter is a ribbon driver, which will be cleaner and less bright/harsh than other tweeters.  If you are interested, call Emotiva and ask if they have any “warehouse seconds”.  These are typically items that are returned within 30 days by customers who are just “trying them out” – and they come with 1 year warranty.  Even if they don’t, for $500 I don’t think you can buy better.

Then just look for a bargain basement HT processor, or a 2-channel preamp/DAC.  An HT processor will provide you the ability to grow if you want to add a center channel or sub.  Examples are B&K Ref 20 (if you want a warm sonic signature). Or Krell Showcase.

You can try to find a used 2-channel preamp with a built in DAC, but it’s likely to be much more expensive.  Although I did look at Audio-GD.  You can get an Audio-GD NFB-11.28 DAC/preamp for $330 plus shipping (probably about $50 to USA).  The Audio-GD have been around for a long time and have always been very high sound quality.  The ELAC + receiver combination is not going to be anywhere the level of sound quality that an Airmotive 5s + Audio-GD NFB-11.28 combination.  The Emotiva/Audio-GD is going to be very high resolution and excellent.  You would have to spend a lot more on a receiver to be able to match the Emotiva/Audio-GD level, and at that point you are going to be way over the $1,000 mark and it still may not even be as good (there’s just so much more you have to pay for in a receiver and it’s not worth the money if you’re not going to use it – such as 8-11 extra channels, room correction, HDMI, etc.).  You should be able to configure your satellite receiver to output 2-channel stereo audio through the digital connection and then get a Blue Jean Cable Beldon 1694A 6 foot digital cable to connect them ($20).  Another good thing about this combination is that both items will be new/newish and you will have good longevity (when compared to buying really old stuff).

Relating to my DAC recommendation.  Just to let you know, I have spent the last several years, as a hobby, doing extensive R&D on DAC/preamp circuits.  Modifying and rebuilding circuits, I/V, gain stages, power supplies.  I have gone through many iterations to determine what works and what doesn’t (i.e. cap choice, negative feeback, I/V, power supply, op amp choice, etc. etc.).  The Gustard X20 pro does many things “right”.  Separate linear power supplies for digital and analog (where many others use switching power supply for digital sections – BAD).  Metal walls to shield sections from EMI/RF.  Excellent choice of caps and layout/design.  Fully discrete analog output stage.  Excellent digital clock (looks like a TXCO clock, maybe even an OXCO clock).  Fully balanced/differential from the DAC chip.  For $869, this DAC competes with others in the $2,000-3,000 level.  You can read tons of forum feedback on this DAC.  You will probably get a lot of other opinions for “best DAC”, but I think this is an excellent choice.  I was actually planning on getting one of these next year for my next project because it is such an excellent platform/design, but I found a much better DAC to work with.  I plan to get the LKS MH-DA004 which is twice as expensive at $1599 with USB (but it looks like a giant killer that will compete in the $3,000-5,000 area).  Actually, the LKS is about 95% close as to how I would design something if I had the capability to do it from the ground-up.  The Gustard is second at about 80% maybe.

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I took a quick look at the Yamaha 801.  It’s pretty good.  However, remember you are comparing a $799 retail integrated to a $2495 retail integrated.  The Parasound is just going to be in another league.  I do agree that the Yamaha would be a good choice if you are at that budget level.  It looks like you can get a used one for around $475.  The Parasound transformer and power supply look to be beefier.  The Parasound is also going to use much higher quality internal components.  The Parasound is just going to sound much more refined and could have a lot more brute force for bass punch/muscle.

As far as the Peachtree, I have listened to Class D stuff and I have decided that it is not for me.  Many others love the Class D.  When I listen, I can agree that it is extremely clean sounding.  However, it just does not have that “organic” feel – there is no emotional connection for me to the music, also not as much high frequency “air”.  Many others love the Class D, so I’m not attacking the technology.  However, there are a couple companies that are putting a discrete Class A input stage on the amplifiers that make it sound sweeter and livelier.  The two examples I know of are the PS Audio S300/M700 amps and the Nord “One Up” series (I would recommend the Sparkos opamp option over the Sonic Imagery if you are looking at one of these).  I haven’t heard them, but I would think they would sound less “sterile” than the other Class D offerings.

If you are considering an external DAC like the Gustard, then there are probably better integrateds than the Parasound Halo.  Especially if you are also looking at an external phono preamp.  It really depends on your budget.

I do know someone who has excellent results with the PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp.  Like I said, I have no experience with phono preamps, so I could not advise.

Speakers – this is difficult. If you post a question like “what is the best speaker for $1300”, you will get 15 different opinions and “everyone is right”, lol.  And the recommendations will be all over the board, just making you more confused.  Do you have a Best Buy / Magnolia Hi-Fi near you?  It’s a good place to start.  Just go in and ask to listen.  It will at least give you an idea of basic B&W, Martin Logan, Definitive Technology sounds.  Then you can post a question like “I like the sound of the B&W xx model speaker.  Is there a better choice given the type of sound that the B&W provides”.  Then you can get into a discussion on how one speaker is different from another speaker.  Without a baseline, it’s almost like asking a blind man to describe what “seeing” is like.

Oh, mesch might have been recommending the Yamaha integrated for your TV system.  So, looking at this:

Yamaha 801 + ELAC B6 bookshelves

Audio GD NFB--11.28 + Emotiva Airmotiv 5s powered monitors

The Yamaha/ELAC combination will have the ability to connect many analog sources as well as several digital sources.  Plus have the ability to connect a subwoofer if you choose.

The Audio-GD/Emotiva combination will have superior sound quality.  However, only 3 digital inputs (one COAX, one Toslink, one USB).

Cost will be somewhat similar.

Auxinput has been very generous in his provision of extensive and excellent advice. Most certainly the Parasound Halo is better built than the Yamaha at 2.5 times the price. 

My recommendations were to pertain to the music system as I would prefer to spend most of my dollars there. I don't believe in spending to much to augment the TV experience. For that I would purchase a used AVR and set up a LRC 3 channel system.

I recommended the Yamaha as it is a quality product that, was within budget (as I understood it), and it made for a simpler system, having a DAC, phonostage likely as good as the Project that was proposed, and has the possibility of adding a subwoofer. 

Laher, could you please provide a better read on your budget for the two systems? 
Okay seems we are getting somewhere :)

For my father's TV setup it can look something like this:
- Emotiva AirMotive 5s (powered speakers, i.e. built in amp)
- HT processor (Krell Showcase or B&K Ref 20) OR 2 channel preamp/DAC (Audio-GD NFB-11.28)
-  configure satellite receiver to output 2-channel stereo audio through the digital connection and get a Blue Jean Cable Beldon 1694A 6 foot digital cable to connect them

Questions: do I need a preamp for powered speakers? do the HT processors you suggested have built in DAC and/or preamp? 

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For my vinyl setup it can look something like this:

- tower speakers (passive, make and model TBD)
- integrated amp such as Parasound Halo (phono preamp, preamp, amp, DAC) OR integrated amp (one that does not have DAC) + external DAC ( Gustard X20 pro or LKS MH-DA004)
- turntable (still thinking about the ProJect Debut Carbon Premium with Ortofon 2M RED cartridge)

Questions: do I need to consider anything else in this setup? what type of cables do I use? If I do go with the external DAC, please suggest a better integrated amp (as you mentioned). If this doesn't include phone preamp then I could consider the  PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp, but perhaps it's better to have an integrated amp that does include this and just have the external DAC, what do you think? perhaps there are even better integrated amps for the money that don't have phono preamps and then I get both DAC and phono preamps as external. 

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I totally appreciate your comments about speakers, and I know how difficult it is to give advice without a foundation to build upon. I live in the UK and just moved to a new city and I have not been able to find a decent hi-fi store, they all seem to be commercial shops that sell the standard sony, panasonic, samsung type speakers that non audiophiles will buy. 

I'm not sure if this helps but my vinyls are mainly jazz, blues, soul, but if and when I do plug in iPod/iPhone or laptop then I will play music with more bass and more of a punch like hip hop, house, rock, RnB. 

Thanks Mesch for the consideration against my original mentioned product for the same budget, it's good to know that I have a good option (Yamaha 801) for around that price bracket. And I agree in not spending too much on the TV setup, my father isn't that interested in having the best, but I will also be watching and listening on this setup so I'd like it to be decent enough. 

I guess to answer everyone's question about budget (which is difficult because I hadn't really considered it and set any limit):

For the TV setup - maybe betwen $1000-1,500 but of course if it's possible to go lower than great.
For Vinyl setup - anywhere between $3000-5000 but this is for me to so willing to go higher as necessary. 

If it helps in providing amp recommendations, I don't think I'll want to add a sub to the TV setup but may want to on my vinyl setup but earlier comments said that with the right amp and setup, the types of tower speakers I was considering will have enough bass, so this is fine for me. So it's not an essential to have that option for my vinyl setup. 

Thanks again all for your knowledgeable expertise and insights and for your patience with me as a newbie.