2. amps-preamps
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Suggest a new amp/preamp/Dac streaming combo

I'm in the process of joining the 21st century and want new electronics. I have B+W CM10's that I'm happy with and would like to purchase a new integrated amp (or separates) with a DAC and streaming capability. The number of components is not important but I would like to spend $3K or less. Any suggestions? I do have an older B+K 200w/channel that can be utilized but I worry that it has reached the end of it's life.
Thanks,Scott





scott69
auxinput
2,920 posts
 

I think dedicated network players are going the way of the Dodo, just as dedicated wordprocessors once did (remember those?). After all, each time a new service is introduced, either the service provider or the player manufacturer will have to develop a new app, and that for many services and many players. The same was true for smart tv’s or disc players with streaming abilities. It is just not a viable business model, and as a user you are stuck in a dead end street.
The alternative is either using a pc of one kind or another, with its universal browser (the Raspberry Pi is very popular for this, but any laptop will be just fine), or streamers by market leaders like Google (Chromecast) or Apple (Airport Express).


Yes, this is somewhat correct. But there are other things to think about than just "keeping up with the technology". Sound quality is a huge consideration. I understand that those measurement results of the Chromecast show very low distortion, but measurements don’t always show things like sonic signature, jitter / clock accuracy, switching-power supply interference, etc. I have used the Amazon FireTV as a streamer device (which is very similar to Chromecast, Apple TV, etc). The audio quality through HDMI was actually worse than my cheap old Sony bluray player (not to mention an Oppo player). Video streaming had it’s own problems as the FireTV could not successfully transmit video without frame jerks (such as 30fps or 60i or 24p). The Sony and Oppo players were significantly better as transports for streaming both audio and video.

Laptops really do not make good transports as the USB (or even HDMI if a laptop has it) will not have good power supplies or localized USB circuits.  USB Reclockers (like Wyred 4 Sound Recovery) can help, but it's still not optimum.  Desktop computers can be better if you have good USB or SPDIF cards (such as SOTM, Xonar Essence, Pink Faun, etc.). But they still are not as good of a transport as a dedicated network player with proper SPDIF/USB/i2s interfacing and good power supplies and digital clocks.

In the end, it really depends where you want to put your money.

mesch
3,484 posts
 
Well, you could load all your CDs onto your computer as full rez files(wav, AIFF, Flac) and not have need for a disc player. Course if your like me and sometimes also wish to spin a disc then you would need the player. There are players that allow access to there internal DAC via coax and/or optical. Would ned a USB?SPDIF converter to link computer to it.  I feed my MAC computer and a disc player to a DAC that can accommodate both. I sometimes listen to public radio via FM in my living room system which is also used to augment video. I am currently using a tube pre into a SS amp, however have also used a Vincent and a Pathos integrated, both tube/SS hybrids. If the DAC has the required inputs to accommodate all your digital needs the integrated need not have too many inputs. And, as willemj stated you can run a DAC/Pre directly into an amplifier. Most of them can be set for either fixed or variable volume. You could focus on the digital source issue now by using one of them into your B&K amp and delay decision on amplification until that has been thught through.

Sooo many roads... Good luck in your travels. 


willemj
1,036 posts
 
As for laptops: http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2013/04/measurements-laptop-audio-survey-apple.html
Their inbuilt DACs are mostly evil, but as a usb source they are fine. The biggest issue with desktop PCs is their fan noise, although here the new generation of small Intel Nuc computers in fanless cases can be a good option, as would be a Raspberry Pi if it is just for the music playing: http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2017/01/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-as-usb.html
For the OP, I think his best bet is to get a Chromecast Audio for a few dozen dollars, connect it to the analogue input of his current system, and experiment with streaming services to see if he likes this way of listening. If he does, and only then, it is time to think about the electronics. I would go for a DAC with multiple digital inputs and variable output (e.g. the Pioneer U-05 or the Benchmark DAC 3), using a Chromecast Audio and its digital output as a streamer (and also  the digital outputs of the television and the disc player). If video is important, an Oppo 205 will do the same job of DAC and preamplifier and will also play cd's. Plus a beefy solid state power amplifier.
With the Chromecast Audio there is one thing to consider if using the analogue output. You can choose between a Normal and a High Dynamic Range setting. You would think more dynamic range is always better, but the snag is that this is actually not a dynamic range setting, whatever the misleading title. The difference is just the output voltage, with HDR equal to the 2V Red Book Standard. If your rca line input is for 2V, choose this one, but many analogue inputs are more sensitive, in which case you get a cleaner less clipped sound with the lower output setting.
By the way, this sensitivity matching problem is also an issue with many cd players that should have the 2V output, but are often even hotter. If your amplifier has the traditional more sensitive inputs, you get clipping distortion, which contrary to what you may expect is quite common, and may in part explain the reticence about ’digital sound’. A telltale sign is if you do not have to turn up the volume very far to get a loud signal. The solution is simple: insert an inline attenuator or an attenuation cable.
mesch
3,484 posts
 
Yes, willemj, I failed to consider the sensitivity issue between older amps and newer digital sources.   
auxinput
2,920 posts
 

@willemj - It is entirely possible that scott69 would be fine with a laptop transport.  It entirely depends on your sound quality threshold and whether or not you can hear the difference in your system.  With the very warm sounding B&K amp, it may not be apparent.

However, I'm just documenting that there is definitely a difference between laptop / desktop / dedicated-transport. For example, I have the following transports:

Dell laptop with upgraded high capacity power adapter - USB output.

Asus bargain basement desktop - USB output

Asus bargain basement desktop - Xonar Essence COAX digital output

Through listening tests, the Asus desktop USB was superior to the laptop USB.  The audio from the laptop USB just sounded weak without power and impact, and also has somewhat of a dirty grain to the sound.

In comparison, the Xonar Essence digital coax output sounded much better than the Asus motherboard USB output.

I was using a custom made USB cable with 24awg solid-core OCC copper conductors and with the USB power wire removed.

I'm sure I could improve things by putting in something like this:

http://www.pinkfaun.com/index.php/products/streaming-audio/pink-faun-spdif-bridge.html

The Pink Faun card uses a massive capacitor power supply array to further filter and smooth the voltage coming from the computer switching power supply.  The SOTM USB card uses a similar approach by routing the voltage through several regulated/filtered sections.  Or you can improve things by upgrading the computer with a Teradak Computer Linear Power Supply (which I will probably do next year).

Probably the only thing I agree with you on is that the Oppo 205 would be a good recommendation for a disc player / DAC.  Yes, he could connect this directly to the B&K amp and it would sound very nice.  Put an upgraded linear power supply in the Oppo and it will be a force to be reckoned with.  However, scott69 also has a radio tuner.  This will require some type of preamp or integrated amp because the Oppo does not have an analog input.  If scott69 wants to stream from Spotify or Tidal or something else, he will still need to get a streamer (though he may not need/want this).

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