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Benefits of an external DAC

I need a sounding board from you folks.  I have a slightly upgraded Oppo 103 CD player that was a big SQ improvement over my Consonance tube CD player.  I need a DAC to take the stream from my iMac, turn into an analogue signal to my preamp.  Lots of folks rave about the benefits of an external DAC so, in progression, I got a Jolida tube DAC, a Schiit Gungnir, and a Channel Island Audio DAC.  I connect the Oppo to the CIA DAC with a coaxial cable.  I input the analogue signal from the Oppo into my preamp with RCA IC's.    

It is easy to switch between DAC in the path vs. the Oppo analogue signal straight into the preamp.  I tell ya, I have done the comparison between all three DAC's vs. the analogue signal run from the Oppo to the preamp and have been unable to discern any difference.   Zero, zip, nada.  I have done the comparison with lots of audio pals and nobody hears a wits worth of difference.

There clearly are lots of devotees using external DAC, but in my system (with a Don Sachs tube preamp, Pass Labs First Watt F5, and Spatial Audio M4 Turbo S speakers, with good cabling), I am perplexed as to why the use of an external DAC makes no difference in the SQ in my system. It sounds exactly the same.  

I am awaiting a demo of a Denafrips Ares DAC to see if this well-regarded DAC does something to the SQ -- one way or another.  So far, the employment of a DAC to improve the SQ of the signal from my Oppo has been an utter waste of time.  What am I missing?
whitestix
mesch
3,519 posts
 
Jond, I agree. That Audio Logic 34 would be something I would be interested in if looking for a DAC. 

shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
@audioengr

Interesting. You advocate feeding a DAC with low jitter. However we all know that this is next to impossible as jitter is inherent in cabling and the way the clock timing is detecting at the receiving end.

I would say it makes equal sense to focus on a DAC that has the technology to reject all and any incoming jitter thoroughly below -140 dB. Is there something you don't agree with in designing robust mathematical algorithms and electronics to reject all jitter?
wspohn's avatar
wspohn
608 posts
 
I have become convinced that all of the difference in sound between DACs is usually a result of differences in the analogue domain after the D/A conversion takes place.

We did a comparison awhile ago in my main system, which is very good for analytic purposes. We listened to a Cambridge Dacmagic against a Hegel HD12 and the latter clearly had better sound staging and better reproduction of treble and 'air'.

I'm not saying that there are no differences between DACs you listened to, just that maybe your system isn't revealing them to you.  Maybe the sound just isn't different enough for you to detect on your system?
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
bigkidz - Empirical Audio makes the cable.  It was offered primarily as an upgrade to add to other products because customers were complaining about the high cost of decent cables.  It's an option on several product pages, on the pulldown.  The best way to audition one is to send an email and a PayPal invoice will be sent.  30-day money back too.  It's a giant-killer.
audioengr
3,282 posts
 

whitestix wrote:

"Some years ago, I was at the CA Audio show and the particular vendors were using a Bricasti DAC, selling for $5K-$6K. They also had a Jolida Tube DAC which they were able to switch back and forth with the Bricasti DAC. After a couple of minutes of switching back and forth, I looked that the fellow doing the demo and simply shrugged my shoulders... they both sounded the same to me."

stfoth wrote:

"In my limited experience, decent DACs often sound more alike than different."

These experiences are common, but not for the reasons that you expect. The unfortunate fact is, that most systems include an active preamp that introduces so much compression and distortion that any differences in even expensive DAC’s will be masked.

Even after this preamp is replaced by a really good one, there are probably 3-5 ground-loops in the system, all adding noise that masks any differences.

Then there is the source. Most digital sources have WAY too much jitter to deliver a pinpoint focused soundstage.

Then there are the sub-optimal cables, both digital and analog. Many times being used as filters to mask out system distortions from components that should be replaced.

This is a system effect, where all of the constituent parts matter and they all add up causing musical soup.

In order to prevent people from going down the garden path and spending a LOT of money on one thing that they believe will solve ALL of their system deficiencies, it is a good idea to partner with someone with a lot of experience in the business that can help you optimize the system and prevent you from going down the garden path. Help you get the most bang for your buck.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

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