Magico S5 Speaker - SET UP ADVICE PLEASE - Tow-In - Etc.

Hey Guys - I borrowed an inexpensive tube preamp and man what a difference. My rig was screaming for tubes. So much so now I'm thinking about a tube amp also?

I think what you're hearing is just impedance mismatch between your DAC and the Power Amp. Like someone suggested earlier you can play around with the gain settings on the DAC or buy a decent tube preamp.  I'd recommend the Dehavilland Ultraverve 3. Since you are using SE connections, you have a lot of options. Active preamps do make a lot of difference.

OK, that's your room. Cover as much of the floor, walls and windows with rugs, drapes, tapestries, etc. Especially cover the first-reflection points at the side walls, front wall, ceiling and floor between your listening seat and the tweeters. Also cover the wall behind your seat if it's within 5-6 feet behind the seat.
Jim Smith's book, (Get Better Sound), is very helpful and it's only $40 or so. 
Please post updates on (hopefully) progress...

Tom 

Nitewulf - the speaker cable change I made cost me a total of $150 dollars.

I bought my $3,200 HiDiamond D8 Speaker Cables 3-meters as demo’s for $1,200 and then sold them for $1,200.

I then purchased $3,300 Cardas Golden Reflection Speaker Cables 3-meters for $1,350.

Hence the net cost of $150

Regardless of what anyone says about cables I know they make a gigantic difference in my systems.

Moreover, my former speaker (that I still own and love) has a wizzer cone and phase plug vs a top quality beryllium tweeter - my old speaker had a semi-shelved treble and the Magico’s extend to the heavens and then some with a rather robust treble.

These are not perceived differences or a matter of how one hears somthing differently but rather legit, actual, physical - mechanical differences in designs that work differently with different types of cables and components.

My old speaker cables were known to be very high resolution and a bit forward and up front and worked great with tubes and SET amps as they peeled off the layers nicely but in a different system such as my new system they can be bright. No big surprises there. I knew it might be an issue when I bought these Speakers. 

The Cardas Cables are modern so not warm per say like the old legacy models but in relative terms a better match and compared to the HiDiamond definitely a richer, fuller, warmer cable.

The idea being that this $150 investment would be a good spend and provide me a better match or synergy to get closer to the type of sound I prefer. My goal was not to use as a tone control but rather to do less damage. My old cable was the wrong cable and I’m hoping this cable helps.

If the HiDiamond was a more balanced and nuetral cable then this change would not have been nessessary but I bought those to light up and peel of the layers of my Tube SET amp that was driving a speaker who’s treble was derived from a wizzer come and phase plug.

Now when plugged into a solid state amp with no tubes driving the ruthless Magico’s I was just asking for trouble and trouble I got. 

Along with these cables im also adding:

BAT VK-32SE Preamp Factory Certified w/1 year Warranty and built in MM phono and remote and brand new tubes. 

Im looking forward to the changes.

Another member wrote that I am making too many changes too quickly.

There is some truth to that I’m sure but I knew my Speaker Cables needed to be changed and I wanted to get a tube preamp in there also. I’m hoping these changes combined with more break in time make a big difference.

Enough that I can start enjoying these great speakers. I will give these changes a little bit of time but if I don’t like it then I’m off to a tube amp. The most powerful I can afford with my trade. 

Most of my buys include either a trade or the sale of somthing else to fund most all of it.

Just didn’t want everyone thinking I was buying all this stuff for crazy money or anything like. It’s the exact opposite actually. Many times only a few hundred dollars is the net difference that changes hands.

As far as putting an EQ in there somewhere. I’m just trying to get my rig where the different parts play nice together and are good matches.

Trying to mix and match and use this site to get info and feedback to help me do that. Trying to minimize and reduce poor match causeing damage. I think I have good enough components where if I can get the synergy match right they should all do what they do best which is sound great. That’s the hope and goal anyways! 

Excellent thread! fsmithjack-
have you considered a B.A.T amp to match the B.A.T. VK-32SE ?
Happy Listening!

No but I probably should I guess but don't think I will.

I am a HUGE fan of their preamps though. Some call them dark or closed in or shelved up top but I know for a fact that is not true and its not because of the BAT pre that would ever cause that. Well yeah maybe up top compared against a super sterile extended solid state preamp that they only thing they do that I love is air up top and their great transparency but that is a tube ss pre debate not the BAT pre.

The people that call the BAT pre dark is due the rest of their gear being exposed by the great BAT pre's. BAT pres highlight other problems in your system vs the BAT pre itself actually being the culprit. They will expose you so from that standpoint they are a pretty serious units. Sort of like my new Magico S5 Speakers. Best be careful because the rest of your system will be stalk naked and the weakness exposed but sometimes its hard to find exactly what part in the chain is causing the trouble. That said I love their pres and think they are very special and their tube amps for power our outstanding but never had luck with with their big SS amps and owned a couple of them. That last one was the main reason I am sour on their big SS amps.   

I had a big BAT is my system a couple years ago and was decent but after a short while wasn't a fan but that could have been due to the other items as every single items in my system has changed from that time: 

I owned:

Wilson Sophia 2 Speakers
CAT Renaissance SL-1 MK III pre
Manley Snappers
PSA DirectStream DAC
PS Audio Powerplant Premier
PAD Cables

I found the Snappers sounded decent but could not drive these Wilson's properly and were a poor match. I loved the Snappers but they just did not grab hold of the drivers properly. I got frustrated to the point where the snappers were actually started to bother me as at times were flat out flabby. Was considering a full re-tube but the life on them wasn't that bad.

In came the big BAT VK600SE and I liked it much better than the Snappers but the magic was gone. Not the tube magic but just the sole and the part of the music that we really connect with. I mean it was sort of there but it was elusive and sort intermittent rather than in spades.

To make a long story longer I picked up a cheap $700 BelCanto amp can't remember the exact model but it was one of the One models and it was excellent. It was amazing how much I liked the way that little SMPS amp sounded. It tough me about matching where before that I was just throwing darts. It did not have the bass or near the power of grip but much of the magic.

Its funny now thinking of it but the Snappers, BAT VK600SE and then the BelCanto experience really taught myself exactly what I wanted.

I knew what I wanted sound wise just didn't know how to get there so this led to a great time of learning and growth in my audiophile journey.

It let me down a dizzying road of furious rig refit of box swapping and speaker swapping and I was learning. Deep learning about power supplies and cables and different types of tubes and ss designed and no feedback and impedance matching and system matching and SET amps and high sensitive speakers and everything was on the table. It was enlightening and frustrating but I would not change it. I think in this I was searching for a sound. In this hobby you can read and learn and should but most of it comes from good old trial and error in terms of dialing in ones on ear. After that I settled on a great system about a year after than and ran that rig for a couple years happy as can be until this most recent system refit. My me a year and a half is long enough for one rig. I need to keep my rig and gear fresh. If it sits too long the components will depreciate too much so I like to keep the ball moving.

I now know so much more and I was confident enough to go with 103db single full range driver Rethm Saadhana V3 Speakers 8ohm driven by 2 watt SET 2A3S-FFX tube amp to Magico S5 Speakers 4ohm driven by 700 watt Pass Labs X350.5 solid state amp. As of now the Rethm/SET has the advantage but the Magico's are closing the gap quickly as I remove the exposed weakness along the Magico's keep getting better. My speaker cable switch from HiDiamond to Cardas made a very big jump. I have a PS Audio P10 on the way as well so I am building my system around my Magico's with much more knowledge than when I tried the BAT amp.  

typed on phone so please excuse all the type o's :)