Dealers hijacking the discussions


I’m a very long term member and look at the forums most every day. I’m personally extremely irritated by dealers injecting sales pitches into the discussions which has never really been a problem before. Dealers are biased as it’s the nature of business and this is fine but I don’t go to audiogon to see shameless promotion. There’s one guy in particular that needs to go away. The fact that you’ll all know who it is says volumes about the amount of posting this guy/dealer does on audiogon. Does anyone feel as I do. Just curious.
4425
I would like to retort to a couple of you guys.

Frstly so sorry to appear to you to be a "shill" however when a person such as Ctstooner, mentions in nearly every thread how great Vandersteen’s are how come none of you questions if he is a "shill" is it because he doesn’t work for a dealer and I am sure there are plenty of others.

So how do you draw the fine line between a passionate enthiusist and a dealer who says the same thing? If you think the reason is that the enthusist doesn’t have anything to gain, I am willing to bet there are "enthusists" here who are friends with their dealers and are most likely promoting on their behalf and that is not to mention actual shills that hide and don’t say their affiliation.

As per salesperson vs sales professional, the difference is not what you think. A salesperson is the best buy order taker yep Sony is better, no Yahmaha, is better, they don’t educate, and they don’t suggest brands they don’t sell its called order taking.

A sales professional  has a wide base of knowledge of the products they sell and don’t sell and can recommend appropriate products for someone’s taste, budget and situation, again, if you think this is just because dealer x sells line Y most dealers sell their brands because they believe that their products either sound better, sound as good, or cost less and provide nearly the same performance.

We compaired a brand of electronics we sell $32k vs a $90k amp and in some ways the $32k amp was better in other ways the $90k one was, and we said that, we didn’t say our amp blew away amp x we reported the findings.

As per selling or promoting to make a profit, guess what most of the time it hasn’t happened, due to distance or territorial restrictions. We post to let people consider looking at products they might not have thought about to which they will hopefully go their local dealers to check out.

So lets look at a possible scenario shall we: I was thinking about buying a used pair of X they are $35k new while a used pair is $25k, why don’t you consider speaker Z it is brand new at $25k offers you this this and this and you may like it better or it may fit your needs even better.

If that person with an open mind then listend to said product, which would not likely not be with us, and found that product to be even better, do you know what that person would have been delighted to have read the post and been pissed off at you guys bashing someone who was making a good suggestion.

As per being a "home based dealer" it is the lines that you sell not where you sell them that makes you a dealer. What is a store it is a place which has products usually set up in an enviornment that is totally not like someone’s home, there are also a number of dealerships just like mine, run out of a house for conveinience or to save money on outragous rent to focus on product selection which we have a wide and varied lineup

Every heard of GTT Audio, they are a home based dealer/importer, Apex Audio’s in Colorado’s previous incarnation Audio Unlimited, was a home based dealer and they had the Focal Grand Utopias as well as many A list companies, Command AV in VA and there are a lot more, I think Ne Plus Ultra a Wilson dealer is based out of home as well.

When we said we actually have a wider product selection than most of the New York dealers that is not a boast, we have a huge selection of great products, in surround sound receivers we sell and display, Anthem, Arcam, Cambridge Audio, and Nad, we can actually demo each one in the same room/system.

As per lines carried most of our lines are A class lines, products such as KEF, Paradigm, Legacy, ATC, Dali, PSB, NAD, Conrad Johnson, T+A, BAT, Naim Manly, Rega, Lumin, Aurender, Cary Audio, Unison Research, Audioquest, Wireworld, Audience, Parasound, Anthem, Arcam, Electrocompaniet, Nuprime, are all great lines.

In the past we have carried Luxman, Hegel, Vivid, Bryston, Aragon,Chord, as well as many others lines that are well respected we noved on when we found better sounding products such as Unison Research which at the time sounded better than the Hegel and Luxman products.

4425 If you haven’t guessed we don’t want Wilson, as we feel they are more about ever escalating pricing, and changing models constantly and have lost their way, and we are very fond of the speaker lines we do sell, if you have also read our posts we do recommend Vivid and Rockport as being uber speakers and we don’t sell either of those lines currently, as per ARC haven’t heard their latest stuff but have found over the years issues with reliability and being a bit too sterile.

At this point being a mature dealership, we can carry almost any major line that interests us. We choose to carry lines that in our mind exhude value as well as performance.

You guys really need to lighten up and stop worrying that our little old dealership is running the forums. The entire industry is dying because of close minded people that are not interested in widening their worlds or looking at new ideas, that might interest others.

Dave owner, master troll, super shill, stealer of the one true ring
Audio Doctor NJ.

and even though I feel some of you have attacked us and in the case oif Grgr4blu with malacious intent, I would still welcome you into our store for you to see if you think we make great sound. Our hearts and ears are open are yours?



I have no issue with dealers posting here as long as they identify themselves as such.  An opinion from a dealer will always be biased in the direction of his business...always.  Don't think I've ever gone into a BMW dealership and had a manager tell me that Lexus is a better car.
Dave. Just look at the last few posts of yours. You just bloviate on, and on, and on......I love brick and mortar stores, and I have never been in yours. But just reading this thread alone, makes me want to stay away from your store. By the way, I don't need a dealer to help make my decisions (or a reviewer for that matter). I can  use you guys to give me a heads up on a piece of equipment, but ultimately I do my own research and in my ears, I trust.
Cheers,
Tim
Mr_M, sorry to in your words bloviate, there are a lot of issues that have been raised which all need to be addressed and in fact all of these issues could be there own posts.

There are real shills here both dealer affliated and non affiliated

There was the concept of what constitutes a dealer.

There was also the discussion of motivativation for profit when many times there is none to be gained.

There was also the discussion of what consitutes hi-jacking vs suggestion of alternative product that might fit someone's needs possible better and for less money or the same money.

Yes I can see a lot of the points being raised on both sides some of which I agree with and some which I do not. 

If you are in our neck of the woods, and want to visit fine, the fact that you an audiophile would not want to visit our store based on a discussion I personaly find sad not for me but for you.

Personal feelings should not get in the way of wanting to check out someone's store or listen to a product. We treat our clients very well as evidenced by people who have actually been to our store. 

You don't know if for example I looked at your setup and said do x y or z and suddenly your system sounded dramatically better if you would be thrilled or you are colored by what you read let you make up your mind to the motivations of someone you have never personally talked with or visited their store.

I will give you one little example currently we are testing a $2,000.00 power cord with some unique technology that has made a gigantic difference in one of our setups, now if I make a post that says this and I sell this product do you now believe it or question the findings as our profit motive is what in your mind is driving the post, do you then want to check out the product sold by us as well as others for yourself or do you discount the findings based on your perecieved dialog of us.

In the end it is your decision, not mine, if you want to seek our council or not, check out our products or recommendations or not. 

When I am traveling I go to audio stores some of those stores have great reputations and their sound is good and sometimes it is not, I don't let my perceptions or preconceived notions alter my desire to visit their stores I visit them anyway all in the desire to see if I can find a better product then what I sell, and most of the time if I find it I move into that line.

Dave master troll and ruller of the evil empire
Audio Doctor NJ


Let's make it a habit of shutting down conversations that aim to tear others down!

And Dave a bit fewer words would REALLY be appreciated.