On/Off Switch

tommylion208 posts11-01-2017 6:10pmMy previous post was totally tongue-in-cheek. Having some fun with the kind of responses that those of us who do hear differences with these kind of things often get.

You got me! :) 

Nenon > my argument is that if a fuse makes a difference, why would not the switch make a difference too? And I am only referring to the on/off switches that are part of the voltage circuit...
I would like to know why.

Blindjim > short answer? The amps power supply.

The more entertaining and far longer answer…

It sure seems like you are doing your due diligence pondering this portion of the power ckt. I suppose you could micro manage it further if no upscale sw or IEC port, is found by having contacts plated with whatever, and or cryo treated.

It seems to me amps have addressed the power issues which could possibly stem from the use of a non descript run of the mill wiring and pwr sw in their power supply via filtering caps among whatever else in that section supporting signal processing.

As you said you altered these caps and realized a noticeable gain in performance, or at least liked what came from it.

Given that line of reasoning, do you feel backtracking to the IEC input and facilitating changes there is really necessary? It would seem an inconsequential effort as the power supply components were previously addressed.

I’ll use the refining crude oil into fuel analogy. Sounds like someone wants to use a better crude oil pipeline, or funnel in order to acquire a better octane..

In nearly any powered audio component, to improve upon its present performance (and this often occurs only in the middle area or below of audioland, not it upper tier or ultra high end ranges) the ‘POWER SUPPLY’ is where most every modder will begin snipping and soldering.

Why? Its where power line issues are getting the most attention. Some components even incorporate on board power line conditioning sections for their appliances.

Quick and easy remedy here? Think Bi Bee. Bus bars. Etc.

If access to these possible areas for alteration are easy to access, meaning the wires associated with the incoming power, power sw, and wires to the pwr sup, maybe merely adding a layer of shielding to the conductors would be a place to start experimenting. Albeit, I’d not suspect major gains there, I’d suspect a prevention of possible collateral interference from radiated energy ought be ameliorated at least with the addition of shielding.

To change these wires out entirely and as well shield them may yield a tad more change, but in both cases, wires and shielding wires, remember, the power sup is dealing with the incoming power already pretty well. Possibly as well as it is able in its current state, which btw, is its job.

Then too there is the aspect of metallurgy. Maybe the desired wires and or solder used don’t’ add up to a discernible end or even positive outcome.

Something tells me many amplifier makers have at some point gone down this rabbit hole in the past. Probably tons of them. What you see in their builds must be considered their best solution. And yeah, this means those amps that are put together by hand too.

I suppose one could do what all other makers do, and buy a uber expensive competitors product and do some reverse engineering or merely take a look see at how they’re keeping their portion of market share.

I’d try hard to have a talk with the maker of the amps design I’m following before fishing in that pond too long, or maybe, at all.

As for fuses making an audible positive gain in performance? Sure. Sure they do. Until I experience that one myself, my response will remain skeptical. As will which direction the thing gets inserted into its clips or fuse holder.

Buying some of these mystical magical one and done little ckt savers, will likely occur on a bet, or I’d not do it/them at all. At $50 or more ea. Goes a longer way towards media. Or a really, nice hat band, pocket watch fob, K cup assortment, etc..

Gotta go. Game 7!!!

Hope you find your pot of gold. Best regards…

nenon,

Reading from your subsequent posts, I think maybe I've been going about this all wrong. Since you're building your own amp And you need the switch installed at the rear panel before the fuse and power supply, then that may change our game entirely. It will be easy IF you have room enough in your chassis to swing it, but here we can likely dispense with considering the usual small, or "miniaturized", switches and focus on the "large" switches instead. These (heavy duty) switches have a form factor that allows them to be a drop-in replacement into a standard residential light switch...I know this is a rather large size to think about putting in an amp build, but I think this likely the way to go and I'll tell you why.

With the form factor this large, all your wire gauge and soldering concerns are eliminated. Just one I happened to look at from Hubble (HBL 1201IL) has a solid copper contact arm with both large contact, surface patches being silver (not some silver alloy) (necessary in these larger, heavy-duty switches to prevent welding). The contact arm and internal wiring are generously beefy and you just connect your large gauge wires to the screw terminals, same as with any other light switch - no soldering at all, and the contacts can be cleaned out as often as you ever need. This switch comes in single-pole, 15A, 20A and 30A. Online prices for these types of switches appear to be roughly anywhere between $20 to $50 each, depending.

But, like I say, maybe the only real concern with this type switch is whether or not your chassis can be made to accommodate the larger size and how difficult it will be to drill for the switch cutout. Exact dimensions are always available online with these large switches, along with all the specs.

But, in short: heavy duty, correct amperage rating for your app, best materials, easy to connect/disconnect. 

Even if it's a challenge to install something like this in your rear panel from a practical standpoint, I think that I would much rather try this than a circuit breaker since (you guessed it) they too degrade the sound (as virtually Any switch or connector can be expected to do, really)...even the ones in our circuit breaker box, but there's not all that much that can be done about that, of course.

Hope this helps.

Congrats to Astros fans. Finally a world series win!!

I did neglect to address your other Q’s in your OP, but I’d say that your original instincts are correct about that if all the other AC ancillaries (power cords, fuses, power supplies, IEC inlets, duplexes, etc) are fair game for ’getting it right’, then why not on/off switches? I concur. Might throw in fuse holders too, really. In fact I’d say that ALL switches, connectors, fuses, breakers, et al, are The Spawn of Satan in the audio world. The best sounding connector or switch, ideally, is none at all...hardwired bypass will always sound better. But, what can we say, there’s no practical way to live with a "hardwired bypass" condition on everything - totally impractical, impracticable, and definitely downright dangerous! So they are evil - but, a necessary evil, so we accept them and what they can do for us in the real world.

As for an amp power switch, most of the time, from a purely operational standpoint anyway, we might consider for a moment that a power switch for the usual hifi amp may not even be necessary. We could, if the amp is not in a rack or cabinet, just plug and unplug the power cord, presumably, for amps that are not to be left on anyway. 

But, in practice, this can be a little dicey sometimes. Unplugging or plugging in too slowly or awkwardly can exaggerate the arcing at the contact points and the arcing may be enough in some circumstances to blow that expensive designer fuse, or perhaps do some kind of damage to the amp, even whether it has some measure of protection or not. Even if no damage to the gear ever occurs, the carbon buildup inside the female AC receptacle will be frequently occurring and impossibly difficult to clean.

And suppose that very rare instance occurs to you one day and your amp suddenly is making a very LOUD and nasty noise and in a second you realize that the power has to be cut immediately or the worst may happen. If the power cord were momentarily inaccessible (as in the rack or cabinet scenario), then the front-panel switch could be a gear saver. An available switch would be the fastest and most reliable way to avoid imminent meltdown. Rare maybe, but in the life of many an audiophile, that day has already come...or is probably going to.

So, for those practical concerns alone, I’d argue that the switch is necessary...and that as long as that’s true, then it might as well be audibly the best kind for the job that is still affordable overall.