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Well Tempered Reference Arm and Koetsu Rosewood Signature Combination

Hello,

Does anyone out there have any experience using a Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge in a Well Tempered Reference arm?  I have this cartridge and arm which is mounted to a WT Classic 'table.  I know this arm classifies presumably as a low mass arm. I bought the cartridge with a few hundred hours on it (circa mid 90's) and since then the suspension went kaput (tracking at 2 grams). I am seriously having Koetsu rebuild it. I really liked the sound of it in the arm before the suspension went south. Is there a better choice out there today for the same/ less money, across the board on all accounts, and is better suited for this arm if that's the case? I want to stick with my a moving coil.  I remember back in the mid-80's a dealer back then let me borrow his Onyx Signature (pre-platinum) for a few months.  I NEVER forgot that sound. It rivaled or surpassed any CD as CDs were back then for sound and quietness. The greatest surprise (and let-down was when I had to give it back to the dealer and put my Dynavector Karat Ruby back in my Grace 909 arm. That's when my jaw fell on the floor. It was quite heartbreaking.

If anyone has any experience with the combo above please chime in.

Thanks,

Statman71

statman71
statman71 OP
3 posts
 

Reply to lewm,

Thanks for you comments. In my post I left out a key word and that is, I meant to say that I am seriously considering having Koetsu rebuild it.
Let me point out that a WTRef arm tube has no bearing. It is also mounted to a WT Classic table. The pivot end of the arm has a shaft going from it down to a round paddle which is immersed in a cup of silicone fluid. As the for the azimuth, I would only occasionally need to tweak it in. It wasn't always going out of adjustment. Per my post, before the suspension wore out (?? read on), I was fairly content with sound in almost all aspects except bass output. This is a well-used cartridge with many hours on it when I bought it. I always remember the bass from that Onyx Signature that I had in my Grace arm (which had double gimbal bearings) way back then which was probably due, in part, to the cart. being mounted in that arm and not a WT. I think I may agree with you on the heavy damping in the vertical direction. I should be able to lower the damping by decreasing the depth at which the paddle sits in the silicone cup.This is done by turning the cup (which is threaded)  x turns or partial turn so that the paddle sits higher in the fluid. I'm just remembering this now as I type that I have this feature in the arm and need to experiment. This may be causing the cantilever to collapse perhaps(?). I will check this and try it out. I not very keen on shelling out for a Graham or Dynavector arm.

To answer your original question,  I would like to know if I could keep my WTRA and spend the $$ on the rebuild and tweak in this set-up OR keep the arm and with another cartridge more suited for this arm? I've read on another blog that a some Koetsu enthusiasts listened to old Rosewood Sigs  made by Koetsu senior and  newer stone Platinums by the son and the older ones sounded much better that the newer. They mentioned the bass was always deficient on them (which I disagree with in terms of the  stone Koetsus). What's your experience with Koetsu, if any, and opinion on this point? Looking at the gamut of decent to very good  MC cartridges out there, it seems the rebuild is priced about the same or less than most of them. 

Thanks again, 

Statman71

daveyf's avatar
daveyf
2,965 posts
 
Statman71, I’m going through some similar questions as you have posted. I also own a WTA ’Black’ version. The arm is excellent in most areas. Matching it up to a Koetsu is also a question in my mind. I think that the answer is that the Koetsu will work well in the arm, BUT you will still have a lighter weight bass response. ( My guess). Due, i suspect, to the fact that the arm seems to be a limiting factor ( somewhat ) with deep bass response. Possibly I would guess due to the low mass of the arm tube. OTOH, the arm is a real champ in the imaging dept ( I believe due to the liquid bearing...no bearing noise whatsoever!) and i suspect will outclass most arms in that area. So, what is the solution? I would certainly consider having the Koetsu re-built and then seeing what you think of the SQ. I use and am pretty happy with a Benz...they have a similar sound to Koetsu’s, although depending on model...perhaps a little less able in the mids??? Tough question...and no easy answer.
analogluvr
859 posts
 
 I have a well tempered arm and at first I agreed with Lewm regarding azimuth. Since then I have fiddled with things and experimented with differing amounts of fluid and I believe I have things working well. I just absolutely love the arm now! I have a Lyra helikon  on it and things have never sounded this good! The bass is very deep and tight.  Things just sounds very musical and right.  
 I believe my lira has a compliance of 12 but unfortunately I have no experience or knowledge of the Koetsu's 
m-db's avatar
m-db
999 posts
 
Speaking to azimuth and the original Well Tempered turntables Player, Classic, and Reference models. The platers have a slightly concave record surface. Along with a an assortment of threaded record clamps the combination is intended to address warped LPs to some degree by preloading the disc from the outer edge downward at the spindle.

The Classic and Reference forked arms are equipped with anti-skate and azimuth on the fly adjustability. Using the Fosgate Fozgometer and the Clearaudio azimuth test record its simple to get a reasonably accurate azimuth setting.

In my experience the fly in the ointment is the irregularity in the thickness of the vinyl in the label area and weather or not the clamp is all the way down. This can affect the Fozgometer reading slightly. Audibly, I'm unable to hear the difference.


Another observation. I've found changing the tonearm cup fluid with 100,000 cst polydimethylsiloxane fluid from Turntable Basics at least yearly has had a noticeably audible affect. Two 10ml syringes should be enough for the job if the paddle is properly located.  

I have no experience with the Koetsu. I've had Benz Micro Wood Lo and the 10.7 gram Ruby Z, compliance 15, tracking at 1.9 grams.


IMO the biggest improvement in LP playback is ultrasonic record cleaning.  

 
lewm
13,393 posts
 
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade.  If you like the WT Reference tonearm, that's fine.  But I do take issue with the bit of propaganda put forth by WT to the effect that it has "no bearing".  Because it pivots, it MUST have a bearing, by the very definition of the word.  It's fair to say that it does have a very novel bearing, the likes of which is found nowhere else.  Whether that makes it a great bearing in terms of function is where I might disagree with its adherents.  Also, I am not including the Amadeus tonearm in my comments, because I never worked with an Amadeus.  On the Reference tonearm that I did use, the azimuth could be seen visually to change as the tonearm traversed the surface of the LP; I don't think that is desirable.  If that is not happening with yours, that's great.

I have a Koetsu Urushi which is a modern product of the company and therefore almost certainly was not made by the senior Sugano.  I like it a lot.  Since one can never hope to buy a Koetsu made by the father, why worry about the difference between the old and the new, at all?  I would judge the cartridges based on what they are now, and in doing so I would ignore the testimony of those who say the cartridges made by the elder are so wonderful.  A lot of cognoscenti seem to love the stone-bodied Koetsus, albeit they are very expensive.
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