Which watts are the right watts in SS amps?


Hello Sports Fans!

More than a few people over the years on these pages have said only those SS amps which double down in output power as impedance drops are truly special or worthy amps. Eg., 200 @ 8ohms; 400 @ 4 ohms; 800 @ 2 ohms; etc.

Not every SS amp made does this trick. Some very expensive ones don’t quite get to twice their 8 ohm rated power when impedance halves to four ohms. BAT, darTZeel, Wells, and Ypsalon to name just a few.

An amps ‘‘soul’’ or it’s ‘voice’ is the main reason why I would opt in on choosing an amp initially and keeping it. Simultaneously , I’d consider its power and the demands of what ever speakers may be intended to be run with it or them.

I’ve heard, 80% of the music we are listening to is made in the first 20wpc! I’m sure there’s some wisdom in there somewhere as many SS amps running AB, are biased to class A Only for a small portion of the total output EX. 10 – 60 wpc of 150 or 250 wpc.

After all, any amps true output levels are a complete mystery when anyone is listening to music anyhow.

I suspect, not being able to actually measure true power consumption, the vast majority of listening sessions revolve around 60wpc or so being at hand with traditional modern reasonably efficient speakers.

Sure, there are those speakers which don’t fit into the traditional loudspeaker power needs mold such as panels or electrostats, and this ain’t about them.

The possibility of clipping a driver is about the only facet in amp to speaker matching which gives a person pause while pondering this or that amplifier.

I feel there is more to how good an amp is than its ability tou double output power with 50% drops in speaker impedance.

However, speakers are demanding more power lately. Many are coming out of the gates with 4 ohm ‘nominal’ IMPs which lower with fluctuations in frequency. Add in larger motors on larger drivers, multiple driver arrays, and on paper these SOTA speakers appear to need more power.

IMHO It is this note which introduces great concern.

I’ve read every article I can find on Vienna Acoustics Music. Each one says give them lots of watts for them to excel.

Many times good sounding speakers I’ve owned sounded better with more power, albeit from arguably a better amp.

I tend to believe having more than an adequate amount of cap power is indeed integral. … naturally the size and type of transformers in play possess a strong vote for an amps ability to successfully mate with speakers.

Controlling a driver’s ability to stop and restart is as well a key to great sound and only strong amplifiers can manage this feat. Usually this gets attributed to ‘damping’ factor, but damping as I read it is more a shadow than a tangible real world figure as it depends on numerous factors. Speaker cable length alone can alter damping factors.

A very good argument exists about those mega watt amps voices. Each 500 or 600 wpc amp or amps, I’ve heard have had stellar voices too, not merely more watts.

So is it predominately these mega watt power house amps souls or their capacities that fuels the speakers presentation?

Would you buy an ‘uber expensive’ amp based more on its voice or soul, than on its ability to output loads of watts, even if you feel the amp may be somewhat under powered for the application?

Choosing this latter option also saves one money as the more powerful amps do cost more than their lower outputting siblings.

Please, share your experiences if possible.

Tanks muchly!

blindjim
It was a trick question in a way. The trick was knowing Ohm’s law.
Really!!


Regarding our amps, they were designed with intention to work with speakers that do not require feedback of the amp;
  In other words easy to drive speakers that are as close as possible to a pure resistive load, which Ralph there are not many good ones, Magies come to mind, not much else of worth, that why you push the Zero Autoformer.

Cheers George
Gryphon top of the line amps will blow to hell all the tubes in all the tube amps Ralph has ever touched. Along with all Classic Audio speakers and Technics DJ turntables. Nothing does power and current like big Gryphons. They don't care about these funny impedance and other problems with speakers. Problem with them might be that the Gryphon may suck in all the electricity available from the power station just to play your music right and leave the entire neighborhood in the dark. 
What are you waiting for if you want real power ?
Big fan of the Gryphon Antileon EVO , so much so I posted a review of them with some magic Wilsons here:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-wilson-alexia-mkii-listening-session
BTW inna many tubes suck just as much if not more power than even this Gryphon, because of their heater current, and make you sweat more in summer.

Cheers George
In other words easy to drive speakers that are as close as possible to a pure resistive load, which Ralph there are not many good ones, Magies come to mind, not much else of worth, that why you push the Zero Autoformer.
This statement is false. The most popular speaker with our M-60 was for many years the Merlin VSM which is a 6 ohm non-resistive load. I don't push the ZEROs because of the Maggies (our larger amps have no troubles with them; but many people seem to like the idea of a 60 watt tube amp on Maggies **that** is when I push the ZEROs for Maggies owners), I push them as problem solvers for tube and solid state amps. Its a much larger picture than you want to paint: if it were really that small as you suggest we'd not have been able to be in business for 41 years...
Gryphon top of the line amps will blow to hell all the tubes in all the tube amps Ralph has ever touched. Along with all Classic Audio speakers and Technics DJ turntables. Nothing does power and current like big Gryphons.
The Gryphon amps are excellent! I was in the Gryphon room at CES years ago and witnessed a reviewer threatening the owner of Gryphon that if he didn't give the amp to him for free, it would be a bad review. The Gryphon owner had more ethics than that and it didn't go well; that reviewer pretty well shut down Gryphon sales in the US for over a decade. I admired them as they did amazing extrusions on their heatsinks, supported balanced operation properly and generally built an extremely high quality product.

Not sure how any amplifier blows a set of speakers and a turntable 'all to hell though'- that part of your statement seems nonsensical. Your statement about power **and** current does not make sense either and here's why: if an amp can make a given power into a given load (say 300 watts into 2 ohms) we can determine the current easily enough:

First, Ohm's Law relates voltage, current and resistance R=V/C

From that the power formula derives: 1 watt is equal to 1 volt times 1 amp.

If you state it in terms of resistance

The power formula is Power = (current squared) times resistance.

So plugging in the values: 300 = (current squared) times 2

solving for current squared we get 150, the square root of that is 12.25 amps.

From this I hope that you can see that it does not matter what kind of amp makes that power- the current will be the same; power (wattage) is the result of current and voltage together- current cannot exist without voltage.
I don’t push the ZEROs because of the Maggies

You started this Ralph with your second post.
Didn’t say you pushed Zero’s because of the Magie’s, just any speaker that are hard to drive. Read a bit more carefully.

What I did ask.

" https://www.stereophile.com/images/217MagS52fig1.jpg
But what I will ask you Ralph, is one of your production OTL amps going to stay flat in frequency at a reasonable loudness level and envelope of +& - 1,2 or even 3db, into this load without the band-aid use of any external Auto-transformers (Zero’s)?? BTW, this is a yes or no question..."

BTW: here’s Stereophiles test take on the Merlin VSM
" The speaker itself was quite sensitive, at an estimated 88.5dB(B)/2.83V/m, which, in conjunction with its moderate impedance (fig.5), will make it an easy load for the partnering amplifier."
As I said " In other words easy to drive speakers that are as close as possible to a pure resistive load,"  

Cheers George