Which watts are the right watts in SS amps?


Hello Sports Fans!

More than a few people over the years on these pages have said only those SS amps which double down in output power as impedance drops are truly special or worthy amps. Eg., 200 @ 8ohms; 400 @ 4 ohms; 800 @ 2 ohms; etc.

Not every SS amp made does this trick. Some very expensive ones don’t quite get to twice their 8 ohm rated power when impedance halves to four ohms. BAT, darTZeel, Wells, and Ypsalon to name just a few.

An amps ‘‘soul’’ or it’s ‘voice’ is the main reason why I would opt in on choosing an amp initially and keeping it. Simultaneously , I’d consider its power and the demands of what ever speakers may be intended to be run with it or them.

I’ve heard, 80% of the music we are listening to is made in the first 20wpc! I’m sure there’s some wisdom in there somewhere as many SS amps running AB, are biased to class A Only for a small portion of the total output EX. 10 – 60 wpc of 150 or 250 wpc.

After all, any amps true output levels are a complete mystery when anyone is listening to music anyhow.

I suspect, not being able to actually measure true power consumption, the vast majority of listening sessions revolve around 60wpc or so being at hand with traditional modern reasonably efficient speakers.

Sure, there are those speakers which don’t fit into the traditional loudspeaker power needs mold such as panels or electrostats, and this ain’t about them.

The possibility of clipping a driver is about the only facet in amp to speaker matching which gives a person pause while pondering this or that amplifier.

I feel there is more to how good an amp is than its ability tou double output power with 50% drops in speaker impedance.

However, speakers are demanding more power lately. Many are coming out of the gates with 4 ohm ‘nominal’ IMPs which lower with fluctuations in frequency. Add in larger motors on larger drivers, multiple driver arrays, and on paper these SOTA speakers appear to need more power.

IMHO It is this note which introduces great concern.

I’ve read every article I can find on Vienna Acoustics Music. Each one says give them lots of watts for them to excel.

Many times good sounding speakers I’ve owned sounded better with more power, albeit from arguably a better amp.

I tend to believe having more than an adequate amount of cap power is indeed integral. … naturally the size and type of transformers in play possess a strong vote for an amps ability to successfully mate with speakers.

Controlling a driver’s ability to stop and restart is as well a key to great sound and only strong amplifiers can manage this feat. Usually this gets attributed to ‘damping’ factor, but damping as I read it is more a shadow than a tangible real world figure as it depends on numerous factors. Speaker cable length alone can alter damping factors.

A very good argument exists about those mega watt amps voices. Each 500 or 600 wpc amp or amps, I’ve heard have had stellar voices too, not merely more watts.

So is it predominately these mega watt power house amps souls or their capacities that fuels the speakers presentation?

Would you buy an ‘uber expensive’ amp based more on its voice or soul, than on its ability to output loads of watts, even if you feel the amp may be somewhat under powered for the application?

Choosing this latter option also saves one money as the more powerful amps do cost more than their lower outputting siblings.

Please, share your experiences if possible.

Tanks muchly!

blindjim
Jim, as I remember, you are going to use digital source and later maybe open reel deck, and that's big maybe.
Whatever you do, whatever components and speakers you eventually choose, you will not get great sound. At best you will get a more or less acceptable sound. I know that you know it. As I said before, you appear to be leading yourself into a trap. And I believe that you know it as well. There is no real solution within this system. 
Neither Gryphon nor Ypsilon nor others can correct the source, they will do some cover-up and smooth the way, nothing more. 
@inna > Whatever you do, whatever components and speakers you eventually choose, you will not get great sound. At best you will get a more or less acceptable sound.

Blindjim > OK. so be it.
Life is what it is. The restrictions advantages, or disadvantages it bestows upon us all, are what they are. Everybody is doing the best they can whith what they have to do it with everyday. No exceptions. I am. You are. Etc.

I’ve heard a fair number of systems apart from my own. I was a musician for many years prior to military service..

I do not see this trap you speaek of.

I feel your input here as well intentioned as it is, might be fueled with some bias as digital in your opinion is NOT the first priority for quality audio reproduction. That’s fine. Quality can be had in either hand. Analog or digital…. If one pays attention.
Digital source is what is to me to do. So I will do that.

My former system had a lot of ‘they are here’ in its presentation. The next one will have more. Guaranteed. It will certainly have more duckets thrown at it, so it better!! )

The idea of enjoying music is not a narrow pathway. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If when listening to music, my knee is bobing, a smile is on my face and or I don’t want to turn it off, something good is happening. Further along, if I feel I could walk up and touch the artist, singer, or musician, I’m quite satisfied I’m hearing exceptional sounds.

Will what ever I amass be on par with the top tier in ultra audioland? Nope. I’m not even considering such an aspiration. I’m content with landing this time somewhere a step or three beyond the ‘threshold of diminishing returns’. That’s all and that is not a bad place to be IMHO.

Chasing perfection in an imperfect world is sheer folly. I can live happily with outstanding, and excellent.

Neither will I be able, nor would I want to spend exponentially above such a level as I do not see adequate justification for the expenditure to have another house in my house, er, uh, living room or listening room.

BMW 7 series? Now, there’s a thought. And it could fit too. Maybe without the radio though.
thanks so much all the options though. very much. be well.


"McIntosh blue xmas tree junk..."

I must say that's a good one... I'm guessing the blue is in reference to the meters but sadly mine have none.

By the way, do you even own any Schiit  gear or the Vidar amps, or you're just repeating what read on these forums? I'm honestly curious.

I think every amp should have meters mainly because I like them. I use the meter screen on my Squeezebox Touch at night because, as I said, I like them. Meters will improve the sound of any amp because they involve your otherwise not involved (for listening anyway) eyeballs that can become jealous of your ears and cause trouble. You want trouble to break out in your head? No? I rest my case.

Okay, I will bounce in here with a topic that NOBODY has actually put forth:  POWER SUPPLY.  There has been a lot of technical discussion above about how and why and if an amp can double the power on half the resistance.  In my opinion, this idea of doubling power really doesn't matter.  The major factor of these larger amps is the power supply.  This is one of the primary reasons why people buy 500 watt or 1,000 watt monoblocks.  The power supply (i.e. transformer and capacitor bank) are large enough where it does not allow a radical drop in voltage when music transients hit.  This can be a large drop or even a tiny drop/fluctuation in voltage (even on somewhat quite music).  With a large power supply, you will have smoother and more constant available voltage when the transistor circuits pull current to power the speaker.  The amount of watts produced is almost a meaningless number because you realistically won't ever use more than 30-50 watts anyways.  The power supply in larger amps is a large reason why the larger amps sound better, less harsh, smoother/fuller response, stronger bass, no brightness/clipping, more refined sound, etc.

The difference between the 400 watt monoblock and a 500 watt monoblock is actually very little.  However, the difference between a 100 watt and 400 watt is pretty significant. 

The other factor is whether the amp will be stable at 4 ohms or even 2 ohms (as some speakers definitely do drop down to 2-3 ohms in the bass area).  This is the other area where power supply has a significant difference.

Obviously, different amps are voiced differently even though they are sized the same.