How important is the rack you use for your components

Great question ricred, I'd like to know the answer to that also. I'm using Symposium Rollerblocks and platforms under all of my components that are sitting on a solid wood rack I built. I have spikes coupling the rack to the concrete floor. Since my components are already isolated from the rack would it behoove me to get an expensive audio rack? 

@ricred1 

My question is if you have Isoacoustics , Stillpoints, or any other "effective" footer under all of your components, do you need a very expensive rack? If so, why?

In my experience the answer is yes. Think of it in terms of layers of defense. The footer is the last layer to isolate the component from external influences, but it stands to reason that if you reduce the vibration reaching the footer the less it will have to do, and the more effective it can be. In my case my source components sit on the following (from the floor up): GPA Apex footers (a roller ball system) -> GPA Monaco shelving system -> GPA Shelf -> Marigo custom sub-shelf -> Marigo Mystery Feet. So 5 different layers the removal of any one of which is audible

Arguably a solid wooden racking system will be the most in need of replacement as it may store energy and give the footers more to work with

There are of course exceptions -- if you are using an active isolation system such as a Herzan you want to firmly couple it to the floor and not have intervening layers of potentially competing isolation

In most cases, not terribly, unless the components on it are VERY poorly designed.  For a turntable, on the other hand, pretty darned important.

If you are going to worry about the effect of small vibrations on electronics, and i wouldn't, you should be even more worried about where you place whatever rack you use. Is it directly impacted by speakers' bass? Your dishwasher?  The dog wrestling with your son? By the way, who bit who?

I digress.

Many people have a "wall-o-audio" with speakers on the sides and a stack of stuff between them.  I don't. I do have my amp(s) between them, on solid stone slabs (bunch of reasons, few having to do with sound).  On the other hand, my TT, CD transport, DAC, preamp and tuner - all of which one could argue are affected by vibrations, are way on the other end of the room, with long interconnect cables. if i'm not testing stuff (which is rare) they are balanced.  This has a very large effect on vibrations - regardless of whether you decide that effect is audible.  You might also place them on a solid (brick, stone) floor rather than a suspended wooden one. I don;t have that option.

In the end I'd put money into a better pair of speakers, DAC, or TT/tonearm/cart/amp/ preamp before I'd put it into cabinetry - unless you are doing it for aesthetic or convenience reasons.  The results will simply be more compelling, unless you have that elusive "perfect" system. In that case, please invite me over.

I'll bring good wine, promise. 

G

I know you will point to plenty of satisfied customers, and that the efficacy of these tweaks can be experienced by anyone, and that many will testify to the effects.

Unfortunately, exactly the same level of anecdotal “evidence” is promulgated by every perveyer of dubious phenomena, from people selling crystals, magnets and homeopathy medical treatments to miracle producing swamis in India, to bufonted faith healers chanting in tongues and waving their jackets to have supernatural effect on an audience. They all share a common trait: far out claims unsubstantiated by any reliable science, and a reliance on subjective affirmation (and all....ALL...of them will point to converted skeptics “I was a skeptic and never would have believed it, until I experienced it myself!”).

The acoustic system resonators come off as the audio equivalent of selling ground rino horns for impotence: wild claims, add copy clearly playing on audiophile gullibility, with no scientifically established basis for the claims. (And I followed the controversy on those things). (Also if we want to exchange anecdotal experience, a local dealer became enamoured of the ASR products, demoed them a couple times for me and I never heard a bit of difference with them in or out of the systems. Though I don’t necessarily grant my experience any more credence in disproving their effects than I grant your experience in ratifying the claims of that company).

The thing is when someone thinks up a hypothesis that sounds even vaguely plausible (at least to themselves and to some others), and then this phenomenon is tests for via subjective methods that have no good controls for weeding out error and human bias, then virtually any wild idea can pass this form of test. So long as people believe it happens. This is why the world is utterly suffused by a head spinning array of alternate reality claims for any number of contradictory phenomena. (It’s why things like Mesmerism managed to sweep through Europe, among countless other examples).

I understand why we want to rely upon our personal experience. It’s our main way of navigating the world. Unfortunately the long, hard-won lessons of science has told us how good we are at fooling ourselves and just how rigorous we will want to be in vetting claims if we want to escape the flourishing of monsters arising from our powers of imagination.

I love, love, love high end audio and have for much of my 54 years. But I share some of J. Gordon Holt’s dispair about the hobby from this interview:

https://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1107awsi/index.html

Money quote:

• As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me,
  

I personally use blind testing here and there to determine audible differences especially if what I’m hearing is inconsistent with any robust technical explanation. For instance, I could have sworn to anyone the sound of my system changed when I simply switched my streaming server from iTunes to a raspberry pi server. But as this made little technical sense (yes, I have read much of the tweakery on computer audiophile sites), I did a blind shoot out and it turned out I could tell no reliable difference once I didn’t know which was playing.
That allowed my mind to settle on the issue and whaddya know? I no longer perceive any such change in my system.
Same thing happened when I blind tested very highly lauded AC cables (even though in sighted tests I thought I heard a difference), same with things like Black Diamond racing cones (they appeared to alter the sound of my CD player sighted, but when a pal helped me blind test I could identify no difference when the cones were used or not). These are the things I learned when I really actually relied on what I could hear.

Dave,

If an audio rack in fact produced audibly different effects from, say, a CD player or pre-amp, server etc, especially of the nature so often described by my fellow audiophiles “deeper tighter bass, greater dynamics, smoother highs” etc, those should be measurable differences at the output end of the system.

But we virtually never get any such repeatable measurements in support of these claims - only anecdote piled upon anecdote derived from just the listening conditions, like you described, guaranteed to allow for bias effects.

And when there aren’t measurments to back up the claims, instead we’ll get more claims about the imcompleteness of science and “these things we are hearing can’t be measured yet...”

And it should be a red flag that these replies are exactly the same reply every other crackpot at the local Psychic Fair, Alternative Medicine, New Age guru etc gives when their claims don’t go beyond anecdotes.

So, I hope some of my fellow audiophile here will forgive me if I bring with me some well earned skepticism and a desire for our hobby to raise its standards of verification and research.

Prof there have been many companies who had done accelerometer testing of the components on and off of their racks over the years which have demonstrated that these devices do work.

In the case of the resonators, there was a Germany company I think FAST was the distributor who paid for an indepth study of the resonators and their testing showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that the resonators affected a change in the energy spectra of the room.

Science is a wonderful thing, please explain the differences to a gas chromatograph of a bottle of 1954 Chateau Lefeat Roscheld. at $10,000.00 a bottle and a bottle of your favorites whinos $1.99 bottle of ripple.

You and I can easily taste the difference the machines would report water, organic materials, but the difference in the two traces would be probably 99.9 percent identical.

How do you measure a difference in tightness and dynamics, when the apparent differences might not show up in a frequency response curve or an spl meter.

It is the feeling you get when a the product hits you in the right way.

Sceptisim is a good thing, but there are times that you need to let your ears by your guide.

By the scientific explanation a 3 foot power cord that is connected to a house full of Romex shouldn't make a difference but it does.

Dave and Troy\
Audio Doctor NJ