Would love some feedback / Denon DL-S1 / phono match / cart recomendations


Would love some feedback / Denon DL-S1 / phono match / cart recomendations

- Vinyl newbie and need some help

- Friend has a brand new  Denon DL-S1 for $600 - good deal?

- I have a Mark Levinson No.326s preamp and just bought the dual mono MM/MC Phono module boards. They are the identical boards from the No,32 preamp and read that was a very nice sounding phono preamp.

- No.326s only has a couple settings 42db or 60 db and 47k ohm or 200 ohm load

- I picked up a used Bob's Device 1131 thinking it would help as my No.326s has limited setting options and read the 1131 might not work well with this cart. That this cart is tough to get the most out of but can be great.

- Should I get another cart? Was it a mistake getting the 1131 SUT. I read the No.326s sounded nice with this SUT so went for it but don't know enough to really know better either way but trying to learn.

- The No.326s phono boards has these little gold terminal screws with easy tighten by hand little knobs on the heads of the screws to add either capacitor or resistor to make the phono very adjustable but would have no idea how to figure out how to use that but thought to mention

- just wondering if this is a bad cart for me to try with my phono and SUT set up and any feedback about anything related to a cart would be super appreciated if anyone reads this. Thanks

more info if helpful below but not need to answer my question just thought to add it :)

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I just finished up a full system re-fit with some tweaking here and there still to do but I am extremely happy with the sound I’m getting today from my new to me system. I sold my entire old system that was tubes and high efficiency speakers and got new to me: speakers, amp, preamp, speaker cables and upgraded digital transport and got a new turntable. Kept my DAC never changing that. Love my DAC. 

This system is the best I’ve personally ever had. I’m pretty psyched - so psyched I just added a turntable. 

A modern Version of the VPI Prime Aries with HRX Feet, 10" 3D Arm and Base, Prime Signature Platter, Ring and Motor. 

I am looking for a cart and my friend has a new Denon DL-S1 for $600 he also has a  used but good shape Clearaudio Accurate mc cart for a few hundred but i never heard of this one and a  van den Hul blackheart grass hopper which I know nothing of.

I thought because the Denon is new never used that was the best option but any of you know anything about the other let me know please.
  
Would love some feedback / ideas / thought recommendations and help. I’m a digital guy and want to give vinyl and honest to goodness try.

As stated above I just purchased the dual mono Phono board modules for my
Mark Levinson No.326s linestage so it’s now a full function Preamp and added a Bobs Device 1131 SUT and both were attained a very reasonable cost which was great!

Just not sure if these carts will go with my phono and SUT.

Rest of my System:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5160

- Magico S5 Loudspeakers
- Pass Labs X350.5 Amplifier
- Mark Levinson No.326s Preamp/phonostage
- Bricasti M1 Special Edition DAC
- PS Audio P10 Power Plant
- Kubala-Sosna Emotion SC’s
- Nordost/Cardas IC’s
- Assorted PC's Verastarr/Cardas

- Digital PC based front end that I have been tweaking and evolving:
- Sonore microRendu 1.4
- Full Suite of UpTone Audio Gear
(2) x LPS-1 Ultra Capacitor PS
JS-2 Linear Power Supply
(2) Regens - ISO/Amber
- (8) Canare / Oyide DC cables
- (2) Breeze Audio 12v LPS
- Tellurium Q Black Diamond Reference USB cable
- Curious Regen Link USB Cable.

This Digital Front End beat out: Lumin, Antipodes, Naim and Auralic servers. It needs everything to work so well but man does it work great. My hope is that a turntable can complete and wish some luck I end up liking it better. That’s why I’m asking for help. I want to put my best vinyl foot forward 

** Back Ground info**

** Room is **
14 x 24 w/Cathedral Ceilings - 16 Foot a peak

** Music likes **
Assorted Music but no metal or loud hard rock anymore really - not much Large Scale classical either but everything else. I listen just loud enough to sound its best but not a loud listener. I enjoy normal levels.

** Likes / Priorities **
Transparency - Delicacy - Linear - High resolution - microscope but not sterile not etched or lifeless -some natural warmth and life to the music is key  but love that see through transparency and love precise soundstage - remove as many layers without being clinical - tight bass - hate flab - but don’t need worlds greatest slam but love speed and accurate bass while being musical.

** Perspective **
I’m only a couple months into this new system and I was struggling to get the right Preamp and tried a half dozen or so searching for the right balance and the one that could bring my new system together like only the perfect matching preamp can do. Each system is different so really it must be heard to know it’s what you want. I believe in the Preamp and knew If I could find the right match it would change everything. Well that was the hope.

To make a long story longer the Mark Levinson No.326s preamp did this and more. I was hedging my expectations based on the disappointments of the others I tried and failed but the No. 326s nailed it and honestly it an incredible Preamp and then some. I was so happy I decided to upgrade and add the built in phonostage option and SUT and Turntable here we are trying to chose a cart.

Really appreciate any help you can provide! I know this is kind of long but wanted you guys to know where I’m coming from! If you would like more info please let me know - all comments and feedback are most welcome and deeply appreciated :)




128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xfsmithjack
Dear @folkfreak : Obviously that you are enterely satisfied with your home audio system and this is most important issue for each one of us.

I'm not against tubes just " per sé ", no things are that I learned by my self that tubes can't honor what's in the recording grooves in better way than SS. This technology has and is extremely limited for today standards and with your Q3 just can't do a decent work.

Now, no SUT can compete with good active SS design, even those SUTs with high price tags over 7K can't do it. Physics laws can't be changed, not you, me or any SUT designer.
But forgeret what is inside the SUT box and think that the delicated and I can say extremely delicated  and very low output cartridge signal instead to go directly to the circuit boards ( as in the 326S. ) that's the shorter " road " for that delicated recorded information that is what that signal needs: shorter road to suffer the less degradation trying to preserve the original recorded information pick-up by the cartridge.
Instead of that in your system the signal not only has to pass through " hundred " of meter in both SUT transformers and from there must pass for other degradation link that are the SUT output connectors but inside this output connectors exist a piece of solder for the inside cable that goes to those connectors and YES this piece of solder and the additional output connectors where that signal must pass following degrading the signal ( not only at both frequency extremes but over all the frequency range . ! ! ) then from these output connectors the signal goes inside the IC cable male connectors with that cable solder where the signal degradation continues the heavy endless degradation but thing does not stop here because the signal has to travel over that IC cable followed but the output IC cable and on and on....

Btw, your unipivots are a little diferent from the VPI.

Your supertweeters only destroy the sound of your system and I know it by experience because I use it many years till an speaker expert designer explain me the problem but your q3 goes to 50khz and has no need for those Enigmas that its frequency range stops at 40khz ! ! and now you have two sources in very bad position working in part of the same frequency range: tweeters and sperT   ? ? ? 

In the past I recomend to you to integrate your system two self powered subwoofers due that the Q3 crooosover the midrange at over 300 hz.

As you can read many problems in your system and that's why you can't detect all the " errors " down there.

Btw,  by coincidence I read this in relation to the Q3 ( I read it 5 minutes ago ) that coincide with my past advise on subs:

"""  Seems to not like big swings in the low registers ..For that one may need to upgrade to the bigger brothers the Q5 or Q7. I am very partial to subwoofers as many know by now and would love to use this speaker with active crossover (Say the Lyngddorf) and crossed very high with a smooth slope say 6 dB/oct at 100~150 Hz... Just a thought..  """


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
@rauliruegas your ability to diagnose the sound of a system by looking at photographs is amazing! I imagine you never need to leave your house and instead can imagine any sound from any system in the world

Anyway if you ever find yourself in Portland OR please feel free to swing by and see how far off your "deaf" (i.e. by which I mean unheard) evaluation is.

Here's a quote from a local manufacturer who swung by to install some new accessories in the system yesterday

Enjoyed seeing you and hearing your system again. A remarkable improvement to your great system from my last visit. I am very pleased with the further improvements from today’s goodies we installed. Particularly fun for me to hear the lower bass definition and the recording venue soundstage space that the bass revealed.
Anyway back to the OPs question -- while there are definitely differences in taste and presentation between different approaches there are many ways of getting to great analog sound but all require very careful setup and attention to selecting and matching the components along the way

And btw @rauliruegas I don't even necessarily disagree with you -- I'm currently for example awaiting a solid state phono stage to replace my tube one -- but it will be MM only hence the step up! The designer of this stage believes that any high gain (i.e. much above 40dB) phono stage represents unacceptable compromises ... again just one opinion and one approach, not suggesting this is gospel for all!

The question ''what kind of phono-pre do I need for the cart

x '' in the sense of the amplification value assumes a phono-

pre for just one cart. For the LO (low output) carts the advice is

''about 70 dB''. But what about more carts than just one?

There may be carts with higher output than ''LO''. Say above

0,3 mV. Well there are phono-pres with more than just one

amplification stage. I own Basis Exclusive with 4 amplification

stages as well Klyne 7 PX3.5 with also 4 amplification stages.

Both manuals advice the use of the lowest amplification stage

sufficient  for the given cart. Say 60 dB for 0.4 mV output.

The reason for this advice is that the higher the amplification

the higher the distortions. The curious thing by Klyne is the fact

that there is one more amplification stage which is not even

mentioned in the manual. Why? Probably because Klyne thought

that the distortion by this amplification is not acceptable for his

phono-pre. So he was satisfy with 63 dB. For those who own this

phono-pre switches 1,2,3,4 and 5 should be put ON to get 67 dB

amplification. One will not find those ''values'' in the user manual.

Well it seems obvious why people use SUT's for the (very) Low

output carts. Say bellow 0.2 mV.

@fsmithjack
chakster - that Luxman is awesome looking - never heard of it or seen it before - cool table and I will remember it and keep on the look out for one but that would have caught my eye because it looks amazing.

yeah, magnet suspended load free spinde, motor by Micro Seiki, super heavy aluminum cabinet, amazing design and usability for two tonearms. That’s why i love them and use two of them. The original armbases are rare, luckily i have the originals, but high quality replica of those bases available from Italy for any kind of toneam, so no problem anymore. Even for $2500 this table is great keeping in mind that people shouldn’t worry about plinth at all.

There is my Victor TT-101 on the same picture, but i do not have a plinth for it.



Ok GUYs - I NEED INPUT on this ASAP because I’m mailing out the check - my buddy just called and told me he could get me an:

Audioquest AQ-100L

Its $75 cheaper that Denon - not that the $75 matters but thinks I’ll love it. What do you guys think? It’s new also this or Denon / I’m making decision now? Thanks