Why are the vocals on some records hidden behind the music on my system?


Help! I am new to this forum, but have been into audio for over 45 years and have never had this problem before. I was lucky enough to come into some money and decided to use some of it to up grade my system for the first time in almost 30 yrs. The system consists of McIntosh MC-402, McIntosh C-100, McIntosh MCD-500, VPI HW19 MKIII, Soundsmith Aida, Furutech Ag-12 phono cable, Furutech silver head shell wires, Furutech interconnects and Furutech speaker cables (yes I like Furutech) and Raidho XT-3 speakers. Now on some albums the vocals are buried behind the music and you have a really hard time hearing the singer? Not all albums are voiced in this manner but enough that it is bothersome. I have a large dedicated man room (24 x 27) with minimum treatment. CDs sound just fine so I feel that it is with the phono preamp in the C-100? I have moved the speakers 100s of times and have them at 5' 8" apart and 8' 1" to the focal point and the soundstage is good and the vocals are better, but you still have to really listen hard to hear certain vocals on some albums. Most of my albums are 30 to 50 years old and have been cleaned with a sonic cleaner (best thing ever imho). Even some of my new heavy vinyl has this problem.
scooby2do
almarg in checking the anti-skate (AQ PT-6) my understanding may be off but I thought you adjusted it to where the tone arm moved backwards then adjusted back toward no forward or backward movement? At present it is set at .5 so that raising and lowering it doesn’t move in or out.
First, I took a look at the manual for the AQ PT-6 tonearm, at vinylengine.com, and if I understand your response correctly you are **correctly** ignoring the instructions it provides about setting anti-skating. It states that the anti-skating dial should be set to the same number as the VTF dial, which is a statement I’ve seen in the instructions for a number of tonearms in the past but which results in a ridiculously excessive amount of anti-skating force IMO.

In any event, following is the procedure I use and recommend for setting anti-skating, at least in the case of cartridges having medium to high compliance. (I don’t have significant experience with low compliance cartridges, and this procedure may be less useful in those cases since cantilever deflection will probably have less sensitivity to variation of anti-skating force):

1)Observe the cartridge from the front while it is in the groove of a low volume passage of a rotating record, and positioned somewhere in the middle of the record.

2)Adjust anti-skating until deflection of the cantilever to one side (left or right) becomes barely perceptible, relative to its position when the stylus is lifted off of the record. Note the setting.

3)Adjust anti-skating until deflection of the cantilever to the other side (left or right) becomes barely perceptible, relative to its position when the stylus is lifted off of the record. Note the setting.

4)Set anti-skating to the mid-point between those settings.

5)Verify that no perceptible left or right deflection of the cantilever occurs near the beginning and near the end of the record.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al


cleeds - the alignment itself didn't take 2 1/2 hrs but making adjustments to the vta is a change an listen to see if it is better or worse then doing that over an over until you find what you feel is the best . almarg - maybe I don't have the PT-6 it might be a PT-5 because there is no dial to adjust vta only a set screw to tighten after manually raising or lower the tone arm by feel, I wish there was a calibrated dial it would have been so much easier.  I though it was the PT-6 because of some other differences in the vinylengine.com library to the PT-5. The overhang is 18mm as it is for a 9" tone arm which is what the ProJect shows it to be also. The mirror on the Pro-Ject is for adjusting azimuth. Your method of setting anti-skate sounds similar to what I stated except you use cantilever deflection instead to tonearm drift. Your way may be more accurate so it's something I can try.
...maybe I don't have the PT-6 it might be a PT-5 because there is no dial to adjust vta only a set screw to tighten after manually raising or lower the tone arm by feel, I wish there was a calibrated dial it would have been so much easier.
Note though that my post referred to the dial for setting VTF (i.e., tracking force), not VTA.

Regards,
-- Al
 
scooby2do
...  the alignment itself didn't take 2 1/2 hrs but making adjustments to the vta is a change an listen to see if it is better or worse then doing that over an over until you find what you feel is the best ...
It sounds like you're relying on intuition and feeling here. While I think listening is a critical part of phono cartridge setup, you're chasing your tail if you don't start with measurements, imo. For VTA, that means using a VTA alignment gauge. For overhang and tangency it means using a mirrored alignment gauge that aligns the actual cantilever, rather than the cartridge body. There are so many variables in phono cartridge setup that if you rely on crude tools and listening alone, achieving proper alignment is very much a hit-or-miss proposition. And while it's difficult to diagnose a problem such as yours remotely, it sure sounds like a setup problem to me.

Your speakers too can  clash with your amp,preamp 
the McIntosh are decent but a Pass Labs 250.8 would destroy it 
as well as Ampzilla ,and ambrosia Amp,preamp  little kniwn gems 
from late great Jim Borgiano. Nelson Pass New 250.8 
and many others are far more refined.
i sold Macintosh  nice Looking and dependable, but not the last word in resolution.  For Cd McIntosh for not their Forte.
look up the Lascala, Tube dac, or a Great Lampizator dac ,
or manygreat players .  Rule of thumb don’t buy everything  from 
one company  ,no one makes great everything 
 unless you have $$. Gryphon  .comes to mind , Goldman,
 great Swiss company not too expensive Ensemble.
  Even cables are system dependent . Your system is good 
just a few things  can be bettered for similar  money’s that we’re spent.  Just speaking the truth .having owned a store .