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Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Hi All.

Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.

I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.

Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?

All opinions welcome.

And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.

Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
mattnshilp
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
My Oppo UDP-205 (delta-sigma) has a user preference setting whereby the filter can be changed. Way back, I did some research as to what this entailed, and found it had all to do with "pre-ringing", "post-ringing" and basically everything at the 20 KHz point. I tried all (7) available filters and none made the sound "better" than the default (mini-phase fast). It only made it as good or worse, to my ears.

So, what "filter" is the issue with delta-sigma?

Filter response, such as "apodizing filters" are not what I'm talking about. If you want to really improve Delta-Sigma filtering, you have to either eliminate the digital filter completely, replacing it with analog filters, or set the filter frequency much higher than most chips do automatically.  This effectively removes the effects from the audio range.  This is what I do in my DAC.  The user can select the 192 digital filter when playing back 44.1 files, and this is how most customers use it.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

shadorne's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
shadorne
7,477 posts
 
+1 on the filters - Benchmark overrides the ESS chip filters by ensuring the chip operates at 211KHz - even for Redbook - this mean the filters actually sit far above the audio (instead of close to the Nyquist ) and be extremely gentle such that they have minimal affect on the audio band (flattest response without the usual ripple)
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Steve, I heard the DAC comparison in Jeff’s (Jwm) system. This audio system was described by me in a post yesterday. System variability is a given and can’t be eliminated. This is why synergy is such a popular word in the High Audio vocabulary. It always a factor.

Matt,
For clarification the TotalDac d1-six was the one Jeff and I used  BTWI agree with your characterization of the Boulder sonic signature. 
Charles
fliz
66 posts
 
If you’re in the $15k-$20k range, the best thing you’re going to find is an Exemplar Expo T205

The catch is that the best sound comes from playing directly from a USB key using its own GUI (which i hate)

It’s Roon ready, but if you want that to actually sound good, you’ll be spending the rest of your $10k budget trying to match the sound of the USB key.

Feel free to hit me up if you want to fly out to Fresno and hear mine.

gdhal's avatar
gdhal
1,641 posts
 
So, both techniques can have good S/N (Delta-Sigmas have improved a LOT since the 90’s), but the issue with Delta-Sigma is the filtering. The issue with R2R is this non-linearity. This is what I had said all along. Eliminate the bad digital filtering and you have something really fine with Delta-Sigma. This is what my ears tell me.

@audioengr 

Thank you for your response regarding my question about the filter, and pointing out that you remove or replace it in your design, and how that differs from "apodizing". It would seem Benchmark also replaces the filter, given what shadorne states about how the ESS chip filter is overridden. Okay. Fair enough.

Regarding the non-linearity, this is corroborated by Benchmark. According to Benchmark (this was forwarded to me by Rory Rall at the time I was in the market for a DAC and Benchmark was on the radar):

"The distortion in a ladder DAC is caused by resistor mismatch. This resistor mismatch causes linearity errors. The step sizes between adjacent digital codes are inconsistent. Even if the resistors are precision trimmed, they drift with temperature. This drift is not just a function of the ambient temperature. The change in resistance can even be induced by the instantaneous heating caused by the audio signal."

So it would seem (to me anyway) that the non-linearity issue you are referring to is a function of *resistor temperature*, which lends credence to why Schiit recommends leaving the unit on 24/7.

That said, I can tell you that even from a cold (off 12hrs) start, and while playing and the unit is warming, my Yggy sounds better than both of my delta-sigma, which have "digititis" by comparison.

This is what my ears tell me.
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