Do I need a sut?


I purchased an Ortofon MC2000 cart from a fellow A'Goner, it is very low output .05mV, my phono pre is a Herron VTPH-2 which has 69db of gain and my pre is a Herron VTSP-3a(r02) 14db gain.
The cart sounds wonderful, but with such a low gain I have to turn up the volume by quite a lot. If I had, another source at that volume, I wouldn't be able to stand it. With the volume turned up so high I get a fair amount of noise between tracks. 
Should I be looking at an sut or just live with it the way it is? I found an Ortofon at a decent price, it has 24db of gain. Would that be ok to go into the mc input on the VTPH-2? The mm gain is 48db, if I plugged it in there I would only gain 3db(if I'm doing my math correctly) I will also be contacting Keith, but I thought I would ask here too.
Thanks
Jeff
jdodmead
I agree with @jmcgrogan2 that you should not run the transformer into the MC input on your Herron phono stage

From the review in Stereophile. The T-2000 transformer has 36 db of gain.

"At a ridiculous 0.05mV (50µV), there is no preamp with high-enough gain to accept this directly. In fact, there are probably zero head amps made that are quiet enough to be used with this cartridge, either, and that includes the MC inputs on preamplifiers (footnote 1). You must use a transformer and few of those out there are going to have enough voltage step-up for the MC-2000, You are pretty much obliged to use Ortofon's own T-2000—a veritable brick of a transformer, weighing almost 8 lbs!—which is (naturally) designed to be used with this cartridge."

This is the SUT you should look for - as you can see it offers a high 35dB of additional gain which would give you what you need. 
https://www.ortofon.com/media/15289/mc-2000-t-2000-transformer-p2.jpeg

Unfortunately these are rather pricey but a SUT builder such as Bobs or MFA can build you a suitable SUT

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=Ortofon+t+2000

As @jmcgrogan2 notes any SUT must be used into a 47k ohm MM input

Thanks, John (Jmcgrogan2).

Jeff, as the others have indicated SUTs are almost always designed to be loaded with 47K, and if improperly loaded can exhibit ringing or other undesirable effects. Since the MC input circuit of the VTPH-2 has a near infinite input impedance in itself, while providing connectors for external loading plugs, you could presumably load the transformer properly by connecting the 47K loading plugs Keith provides with each unit. With a 24 db SUT that would result in the cartridge seeing a load of about 187 ohms, not too far from the 10 to 100 ohm range that appears to be recommended for it.

***HOWEVER,*** 69 db + 24 db = 93 db, which would boost the cartridge’s 0.05 mv output under the standard test conditions to 2.23 volts, and the peaks of some recordings may result in levels as much as several times higher than that amount. Which in turn could very possibly overload the phono stage and/or the input circuit of the preamp. Keith could best advise on that possibility, of course.

So pending Keith’s advice my suspicion is that if you want to stay with the MC-2000 the way to go would be what was suggested by the others, namely using a higher gain SUT specifically designed for use with such a low output cartridge, connected into the Herron’s MM input.

One further point: Note that the capacitive loading recommendation for the T-2000 SUT, as shown in the datasheet Folkfreak provided, is 100 pf. That corresponds exactly to the specified input capacitance of the VTPH-2’s MM input, but the capacitance of the cable connecting the SUT to the VTPH-2 would add to that. So you would want to keep that cable as short as possible, and preferably choose a cable type having low capacitance per unit length. Capacitance on the secondary side of a high gain SUT can be an important consideration, because it will appear on the primary side (as seen by the cartridge), **multiplied** by the square of the SUT’s turns ratio, which for a 35 db SUT is very high.

BTW, I too use the wonderful VTPH-2, in its 64 db version, with an Audio Technica ART9 cartridge rated at 0.5 mv, with no loading plugs, and with great results!

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

I use my Ortofon MC200 with Luxman TYPE-8020 + TYPE-8030 MC transformer connected to JLTi MM phono stage (47k Ohm). The TYPE-8030 silver trans designed for cartridges with 1.5 Ω ~ 3.5 Ω impedance. I do not have a hum problems, but it is not the quitest cartridge and the volume control on my tube amp is a bit higher than with any other cartridges. My phono cables are Zu Audio Mission. 

I think the T-2000 transformer is overpriced on the market, there are many other transformers you can use. Luxman is one of them! 

The T-2000 is not ideal as stated in this Stereophile review:

"Even with Ortofon's own transformer, background hiss was a consideration, though not actually a problem. It was below, but not very much below, the surface-noise level of the quietest disc, and was clearly audible at "normal" listening levels when the arm was on its rest post. Also because of the cartridge's low output, hum proved to be a greater problem that it ever had been with any other cartridge. The effectiveness of the cable shielding and the dress (orientation) of the signal cables is critical with a cartridge like this. When I first tried it, with Ortofon's own step-up transformer, hum was barely but definitely audible behind the musical program during any passages lower than moderately loud."

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/ortofon-mc-2000-mc-phono-cartridge-page-2#omAueWq8yPrE1yJA.99
@jmcgrogan2 

Still, I believe that any SUT is designed to be plugged into MM inputs, though I could be wrong.
ONLY MM (47k Ohm) input, right 

Most MC stages are simply MM stages with SUT’s built into the preamp. So I don’t think you should plug a SUT into another SUT.

No, high gain MC phono stages with 100 ohm input (without transformers) are available from various manufacturers, some of them gives us optional loading, which is great. 

There are MC phono stages available with built-in SUTs too. 

Don't forget about the MC head-amps (pre-preamps) devices that are not passive SUTs, but an active devices designed to be used between the turntable and MM phono stage. One of the very best is ZYX CPP-1 headamp with 125 oHm input for MC.