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Why do my new Transparent cables make my system sound muffled?

My system is a Rotel 1590 amp, B&W 804S speakers, a Marantz SR8500 AV receiver used solely as a pre-amp in pure direct mode, and an Integra dbs 50.3 Blue Ray/CD player.  My speaker cables are QED XT40s, and I use two sets for each speaker to biwire the B&Ws using the dual speaker connecting posts of the Rotel amp, one cable set going to the bottom and one to the top connections for each speaker. 

Based on all the reviews I have read, and I admit, reputation, I bought some Transparent Musiclink Plus cables to replace my Audioquest Evergreen and fairly high-end Monster cables. Before I installed the Transparent cables, my system had incredible mid-range and highs, and tight, deep, fast bass. The 350 watts per channel of the Rotel amp really make the 804s work, I think the way they are meant to. (Frankly, anything I tried in the 200 watt range just did not seem to really drive the 804s.)  But, the system had just a tinge of harshness or distortion when multiple voices were laid over. For example, Lorde’s Melodrama, which is a great CD for testing, I think, sounded amazing, but for just a few places where I could hear a little fuzziness when her voice tracks were laid over each other. All else, especially the piano and bass, sounded simply perfect, to my ears. After installing the Transparent cables, I could definitely hear each individual voice in multiple-track voice sections, with no more of that distortion or fuzziness. But, the bass became muddy, warm, less punchy, and seemed to spill over into the mid-range. And, the mid-range became less clear, present, and realistic sounding. The voices, which were more "in your face" before, now seem more in the background with more accentuation in the lower mid-range than before also.

Honestly, I am disappointed. I would appreciate any advice I can be given on whether this may be how the Transparent cables are interacting with my system, or whether I should just sell them and try different cables. Yes, the Rotel sound is a bit "brighter" than some. I actually really like that about it. But, I don’t want any harshness either. The Transparent cables did not just remove the brightness; they seem to have made the whole system sound muddy, for lack of a better description.

In a few days, my new Rotel RC-1580 stereo pre-amp arrives. I am hoping that will open things up again. But, I have a hard time imagining it will completely undo the muffled sound I am getting right now with these cables. I have the Transparent cables connecting the Blue Ray/CD player to the pre-amp and the pre-amp to the amp.  Once I get the new pre-amp going well, I plan to get back into Vinyl.  Damn my ex-wife for dumping my old record collection.  It would be worth many thousands now.  Thanks.
kumakahn
audioconnection
1,271 posts
 
(((I bought some Transparent Musiclink Plus cables to replace my Audioquest Evergreen and fairly high-end Monster cables.)))

The Rotel Pre with internal DAC should give you a smile.
If you can hook back up with Audioquest Interconnects and Solid core Speaker wires I think you will nail down what you are looking to accomplish.

The Transparent cables are more on the dark side and while some folks prefer this I agree with your assessment of the AQs cables better clarity or ability to get out of the way of the music.

If I were you I'd try some Audioquest Rocket 88 with DBS/ AQ Mackenzies interconnects it should rebuild on what you had but better then evergreen and focus without the shrillness.

Many a component has been blamed for what those other brand multistrand cables do.  Hey, at least you were halfway there.
Best,
JohnnyR
 AQ, Rotel, B&W dealer
kumakahn OP
48 posts
 
Thank you, Everyone, for your input.  Before I give up on them, I will get a multimeter.  I need one anyway to work on my motorcycles.  Once I get that, I will have a look at those measurements, Al.  Given that the 12k input impedance may be an issue, and that the ratio of the output impedance of the pre-amp and input impedance of the amp has some importance (from what I've read), maybe the Rotel pre-amp might make a difference?  I know I checked the specs on the Rotel pre-amp as compared to the amp, and they didn't seem to be too bad with respect to that ratio.  But, I have no idea what the output impedance is from my Marantz right now.  The Rotel pre-amp comes tomorrow, and I'll have a listen to it tomorrow night. 

I didn't even know they made adaptors for RCA to balanced.  I will also check those out.  I do like the clarity and separation of the voices, piano notes, etc.  But, I was listening to it again tonight, and it seems like the low mid-range is just way accentuated (louder) than the rest of the music.  Tones like mid-frequency organ notes tend to overwhelm the rest of the spectrum a bit. Interestingly, Miles Davis sounded amazing on it last night.  Just not much else.
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Given that the 12k input impedance may be an issue, and that the ratio of the output impedance of the pre-amp and input impedance of the amp has some importance (from what I’ve read), maybe the Rotel pre-amp might make a difference?
If my guess is correct that the root cause of the issue is the interaction of the amp’s 12K input impedance with the network in the cable, changing preamps won’t solve the problem since the cable would still be between the preamp and the amp. Although the preamp change could very well help in other ways, of course.
I didn’t even know they made adaptors for RCA to balanced.
The adapter shown at the following link should suffice, and costs very little. Cardas also makes such adapters, as do many other suppliers, although the Cardas adapters cost considerably more.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1026927-REG/neutrik_na2mpmf_3_pole_xlr_male_to.html

Also, while that approach might resolve the cable-related problem, it would of course mean that you would be using a different input circuit in the amp. Which in turn might result in a difference in the sonic character of the amp itself to some degree, for better or for worse.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

jnovak's avatar
jnovak
435 posts
 
As a former Transparent owner I have a story to tell. I owned the original Transparent Reference back in 1996. Balanced throughout. It was the most incredible sound I've ever heard. Speakers were Snell Type B with a Krell 20i CD player. Amp and pre were Threshold T2 and T400. I was in heaven and I swore I would never change a thing----until; trouble! My preamp malfunctioned three times and had to go back for service. My amp needed to go back three times for service also. Once, my Snell drivers melted because of direct DC current that made its way to them. I fired up (literally!) my system one day and I could smell something burning! It was the drivers in my Snells. Threshold paid for all repairs. I was blaming Threshold for all my woes at the time. A tech from Threshold did think that the network boxes on the Transparent were confusing the amp. I think he was right. I sold everything after it was fixed as I went through a divorce and I needed money. As I rebuilt my system back over the years I decided to give Transparent a try again. (I didn't think Transparent was to blame yet at this point). I bought another pair of Snell Type B's and Transparent Reference 5 speaker cables. I have a Classe amp. At times the Classe bought go into standby or protection mode. I had a pair of Analysis Plus speakers cables on hand. I was pleasantly surprised by the result. First off, no amp shutting down. Secondly, where I set my volume control to 11:00 position for most of my listening, I now needed it to be at 9:00 position for about the same volume level. I see that Transparent asks their potential customers to summit their entire system information in order for the company to "match" the proper cables for best results. I surmise that troubles like mine prevailed and this is Transparents answer to the problem. I never talked with them as I buy everything used (I even married a woman with three kids!). I don't have the glorious sound I once had in 1996 but it doesn't melt down on me either. Joe 
kumakahn OP
48 posts
 
The Rotel RC-1580 preamp arrived, and I hooked her up. I cant say the sound is perfect (is it ever?), but for some reason the preamp did make a pretty big difference. I will have to listen to more and different music to evaluate more. But, now it is just a bit like the range around 500-1000 hz is just too accentuated, maybe. The bass is clear and well defined now. I will give it to the Transparent cables on detail. Like the cliche goes, I can hear so many little things I never noticed before. It is quite fun.

By the way, if you are considering this preamp, all I can say is that it does only one thing - pass stereo analog sound. No DAC, no digital inputs, etc. But OMG does it do that one job well.  I practically hate myself for putting up with using the AV receiver (albeit a good one) as a preamp for so long. Preamps make a huge difference, more than I expected. I am sure there are better preamps. But, this one is very high quality. What Hi Fi? was right about it.
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