Integrateds: Why do they all SUCK?

I have had BAT, Pass, Bel Canto, Simaudio gear ... and would suggest, depending on budget:
.  BAT 300xSE (Ist version, used prices 50% of msrp, as stated above). hybrid tube/SS design. 150w, good bottom end, but not as much grip as Pass 150.5. Used = $2500
.  the next gen BAT 3000xSE 
.  Simaudio 150wpc, tried and true solid state Sim equipment. i think they still have a 10-20 year warranty. Used = $4000 or so
.  Bel Canto: the c5i is a good choice. if you can swing it, go for the bigger brother, the 7 series
.  What about Naim? I just sold my Naim Nait 5i (i in italics) integrated for $750, only 5 years old, and 1/2 the msrp. 

OP, we are actually in the golden age of audio IMO, meaning that there has never been so much good gear at such good used prices. The technology had to catch up to become equal to separates, and we arrived there about 10 years ago if you have a fat wallet, or 5 years ago if your wallet is a bit thinner (like me). 

madavid0 OP78 posts02-07-2018 9:07pmWhat about PrimaLunas? Are these things really the giant monster-killers a lot of people claim they are?"
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I have the PrimaLuna (PL) HP dialogue HP tube integrated.
For $4k, its a GREAT deal, as far as bang for the buck.

But after 1.5 years with the PL, I will say that the 6 stock preamp tubes, and the stock 8 EL34 tubes are good, but did not "knock it out of the park" for me. The BEST thing I did was replace the 2 main preamp input tubes with NOS tubes from Upscale Audio, and move from EL34 tubs in the amp section to a well-reputed KT-88 model.

So my last opinion of the PL integrated is that it is a great integrated to grow with,
to play with different tubes and even different speakers.

It is an awesome Blueprint of an integrated amp for you to build upon and customize to your own ears.
But this requires a process (love it and/or hate it, like me) to listen, tube roll, learn, tube roll,
get input from forums, try a different speakers, etc ... you know how the hobby goes.

In the end, I paid $4k for the PL from Upscale, $200 on NOS preamp tubes, and $500 on an octet of KT-88s.
Total = $4700.
best, let us know what you decide

Have a : 

Line Magnetic 518IA (845 based 22 wpc set)  - doesn't suck

Finale Audio 7189 MK2 (7189 based 20 wpc push pull) - doesn't suck

Ayon Audio Spirit 2 (KT 88 60 wpc push pull) - doesn't suck

I think the op is a wind up merchant (as it is called in UK), and has played everyone on this thread.

@facten The real question is, out of the 3, which one is your favourite? 
J.