@mr_m - I'm a long time lurker. A post mentioning a fuse that has directionality and another about letting 'overburned' cables rest were the last straws. Directionality? On A/C? As far as lions, bring 'em on. I love skewering.
@dave_b - Spot on. For those who don't know, those networks are LRC. My current cables have them :-)
@almarg - Isn't science great!
I have a bin of cables in the garage. Silver, Litz, MultiGuage, OFC, Linear Crystal, PE, PEP, PET, PP. Everyone of them sounds different. More than 40 years ago I realized that they are not universal across all systems. I use 'video' cables with my sub because they SOUND BEST of all 6 foot lengths in the bin in that application.
When consulting for Monster Cable Pro, we took cables to many top LA studios. At ALL BUT ONE, the MCP made a difference. Some better, some not.
I ran a cable audibility workshop at AES in the mid 80's. It was run as A/B. For each pass, cables were removed and either swapped or replugged with a timed [30s?] interval. Participants were able to learn as we ran several passes identifying A and B. Participants included a wide range of engineers and audiophiles. During several tests Rod[?] from SOTA and I wrote C because it was not A or B. After a couple of days of standing and talking, I wrote "too tired to tell" Ditto Rod, unbeknownst to me.
Some achieved better than 80%. YHS 84% prior to 'too tired to tell.'
When the results were tabulated, overall it was a wash. For some, cables make a difference, some not.
Later we investigated 'C - neither' and determined multiple factors:
- Line voltage and noise
- 80's error correction sometimes got lost
- Thermal effects
Later, c. 1990, I was involved with modelling a well regarded analog mic pre for a digital console. IIRC, 24 bit ADC, 32bit DSP, 20 bit DAC. Only by getting the correct balance of frequency response, harmonic distortion and phase shift of the original transformer and circuit were we able to get very close, but only close. Technically, it was inferior.
In the mix, we could manipulate the 'sound stage' by adjusting the ratio of odd and even harmonics and phase. IIRC, more ODD made the image come forward of the speakers and narrow to a shallower triangle behind the speakers. More EVEN moved the image plane to between the speakers and extended directly and farther back, more like a stage. These levels were in the bottom few bits of 20bits, i.e. the bottom couple of bits of CD 16bit resolution. Phase adjustments could affect image height but were very speaker and amplifier dependent.
When we reintroduced the analog version of the mic pre, management wanted surface mount. While this would make sense from cost and reliability standpoints, I demurred. We needed the LRC from PTH parts, including iron leads on some components rather than tinned copper to replicate the sound. Or we'd spend years attempting.
EVERY recording has frequency and phase artifacts from microphones, cables, electronics. On any given system, choice of source material may enhance or detract interacting with playback system colorations. Unless one keeps a library of cables and components, changing per recording, the best one can hope is 'pretty good' across all programs. Sometimes one has to choose between the music and the sound.
When auditioning a new component, it must pass with a great multitude of cables and other components. Otherwise, one can build a superb system that could fall apart with the change of a single component.
A topic which receives little ink is thermal. I have a customized CD player that requires about 1 hour playing to sound its best. Not just on, playing. The best metaphor as it approaches thermal equilibrium is adjusting the focus on a camera whilst changing the illumination and color temperature with a dimmer.
It is instructive to log ambient and internal conditions along with perceptions. Not only electronics, but speakers and to a much lesser extent cables change with temperature. Like wine and whisky, people have preferences and some are better suited to summer and others winter. I love Burgundy and Islay's, the missus not so much. Vive la difference!
An instructive test is to play a particular favorite which has good dynamic range on a well warmed system. Make notes and sketches of the soundstage. Now put a low dynamic range selection on repeat, turn it up LOUD and leave for an hour or more. Come back and immediately replay the original at the original level [�±0.05 db max delta @ 1kHz measured at the pre-out]. Repeatedly play it and note the changes as the amp changes. If impatient, use a fan to cool rapidly. Dollars to donuts changes are evident. Class A amps not invited ;-)
As little as 3°C change in heat sink temperature on some amplifiers can subtly change its sonics. How many here note heat sink temperature, or anything for that matter, before prattling on?
Bottleheads are not thermally immune. I have thermally controlled fans just ticking over to maintain tube and transformer temperatures at what I consider the sweet spot. Citation II, multiple ARC, custom KT-88, PrimaLuna, etc. all benefit.
I did not say cables do not make a difference. I said cables have properties and those properties can have consequences. Only you can judge.
Oenophiles may relate: Jordan makes an excellent, well regarded cabernet. However, in Jordan cabs I always taste Dill, which I detest. Once a pal tried to fool me by putting Jordan in an another well regarded bottle. Nice try.
For years after the LA Auto Show, we'd all go out to a fine dinner. Everyone brought a favorite wine. The others paid for the meal of bringer of the wine judged best. One year I took a chard that cost $2.99. Against wines up to $200, it was judged best by a mile. I got my meal for free, but had to buy the cognac. The point? $$$$ does not always equate to better and there is no free lunch.
Of course cables make a difference. Sometimes audible, sometimes not. Sometimes preferable, sometime not.
.
Whether a difference is an improvement is system, program, ambient condition and most of all, LISTENER dependent.
Two of my favorite audio acronyms:
YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary
YOYO - You're On Your Own - no one else is wearing your ears!
Pax,
- Ian
@dave_b - Spot on. For those who don't know, those networks are LRC. My current cables have them :-)
@almarg - Isn't science great!
I have a bin of cables in the garage. Silver, Litz, MultiGuage, OFC, Linear Crystal, PE, PEP, PET, PP. Everyone of them sounds different. More than 40 years ago I realized that they are not universal across all systems. I use 'video' cables with my sub because they SOUND BEST of all 6 foot lengths in the bin in that application.
When consulting for Monster Cable Pro, we took cables to many top LA studios. At ALL BUT ONE, the MCP made a difference. Some better, some not.
I ran a cable audibility workshop at AES in the mid 80's. It was run as A/B. For each pass, cables were removed and either swapped or replugged with a timed [30s?] interval. Participants were able to learn as we ran several passes identifying A and B. Participants included a wide range of engineers and audiophiles. During several tests Rod[?] from SOTA and I wrote C because it was not A or B. After a couple of days of standing and talking, I wrote "too tired to tell" Ditto Rod, unbeknownst to me.
Some achieved better than 80%. YHS 84% prior to 'too tired to tell.'
When the results were tabulated, overall it was a wash. For some, cables make a difference, some not.
Later we investigated 'C - neither' and determined multiple factors:
- Line voltage and noise
- 80's error correction sometimes got lost
- Thermal effects
Later, c. 1990, I was involved with modelling a well regarded analog mic pre for a digital console. IIRC, 24 bit ADC, 32bit DSP, 20 bit DAC. Only by getting the correct balance of frequency response, harmonic distortion and phase shift of the original transformer and circuit were we able to get very close, but only close. Technically, it was inferior.
In the mix, we could manipulate the 'sound stage' by adjusting the ratio of odd and even harmonics and phase. IIRC, more ODD made the image come forward of the speakers and narrow to a shallower triangle behind the speakers. More EVEN moved the image plane to between the speakers and extended directly and farther back, more like a stage. These levels were in the bottom few bits of 20bits, i.e. the bottom couple of bits of CD 16bit resolution. Phase adjustments could affect image height but were very speaker and amplifier dependent.
When we reintroduced the analog version of the mic pre, management wanted surface mount. While this would make sense from cost and reliability standpoints, I demurred. We needed the LRC from PTH parts, including iron leads on some components rather than tinned copper to replicate the sound. Or we'd spend years attempting.
EVERY recording has frequency and phase artifacts from microphones, cables, electronics. On any given system, choice of source material may enhance or detract interacting with playback system colorations. Unless one keeps a library of cables and components, changing per recording, the best one can hope is 'pretty good' across all programs. Sometimes one has to choose between the music and the sound.
When auditioning a new component, it must pass with a great multitude of cables and other components. Otherwise, one can build a superb system that could fall apart with the change of a single component.
A topic which receives little ink is thermal. I have a customized CD player that requires about 1 hour playing to sound its best. Not just on, playing. The best metaphor as it approaches thermal equilibrium is adjusting the focus on a camera whilst changing the illumination and color temperature with a dimmer.
It is instructive to log ambient and internal conditions along with perceptions. Not only electronics, but speakers and to a much lesser extent cables change with temperature. Like wine and whisky, people have preferences and some are better suited to summer and others winter. I love Burgundy and Islay's, the missus not so much. Vive la difference!
An instructive test is to play a particular favorite which has good dynamic range on a well warmed system. Make notes and sketches of the soundstage. Now put a low dynamic range selection on repeat, turn it up LOUD and leave for an hour or more. Come back and immediately replay the original at the original level [�±0.05 db max delta @ 1kHz measured at the pre-out]. Repeatedly play it and note the changes as the amp changes. If impatient, use a fan to cool rapidly. Dollars to donuts changes are evident. Class A amps not invited ;-)
As little as 3°C change in heat sink temperature on some amplifiers can subtly change its sonics. How many here note heat sink temperature, or anything for that matter, before prattling on?
Bottleheads are not thermally immune. I have thermally controlled fans just ticking over to maintain tube and transformer temperatures at what I consider the sweet spot. Citation II, multiple ARC, custom KT-88, PrimaLuna, etc. all benefit.
I did not say cables do not make a difference. I said cables have properties and those properties can have consequences. Only you can judge.
Oenophiles may relate: Jordan makes an excellent, well regarded cabernet. However, in Jordan cabs I always taste Dill, which I detest. Once a pal tried to fool me by putting Jordan in an another well regarded bottle. Nice try.
For years after the LA Auto Show, we'd all go out to a fine dinner. Everyone brought a favorite wine. The others paid for the meal of bringer of the wine judged best. One year I took a chard that cost $2.99. Against wines up to $200, it was judged best by a mile. I got my meal for free, but had to buy the cognac. The point? $$$$ does not always equate to better and there is no free lunch.
Of course cables make a difference. Sometimes audible, sometimes not. Sometimes preferable, sometime not.
.
Whether a difference is an improvement is system, program, ambient condition and most of all, LISTENER dependent.
Two of my favorite audio acronyms:
YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary
YOYO - You're On Your Own - no one else is wearing your ears!
Pax,
- Ian
