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Pick A Tube Phono Preamp, but not just any Tube Phono Preamp

I am hoping some of the experts will help with the decision, I'm an audiophile newbie but learning much from the people here!  One thing I have learned is that everything is in synergy, so a $30K preamp is out of place with a $1K amp.  I already know I don't have the money to purchase truly exotic audiophile quality, somewhere I read you can get 90% of the way there at 30% of the price.

The tube phono preams are in the $1500 - $2000 range, but of course less $ would be OK if the quality is still there, and purchasing used here extends the possibilities.

I have a HOMC cartridge, Dynavector 10X5.  I can't ever see getting a truly exotic LOMC cartridge, but maybe at some point I'd look for an upgraded MC cartridge.  The 10X5 seems truly excellent though, but that is for a different time.

I'm thinking of an Allnic H1201, a bit beyond the upper $2000, the Eastern Electric Minimax Phono, which even new is $1500, and used is less, the Audible Illusions Modulus 3A, which used is in the range, but I'd be using the MM input, the Decware ZP3, and the EAR 834P. I'm thinking there may be others in the range that people here know of to think about.

The Modulus 3A has several other inputs besides the phono, which seems to be a benefit, but maybe then the phono portion has been a lesser focus than on a strictly phono preamp?  The downside is to go to a LOMC cartridge it needs a new replacement board, which isn't tube based so that is a question.  I'm thinking people would use a SUT and keep using the MM input, but I could be wrong.

The Eastern Electric just seems to be excellent quality, but it seems a fair amount of the price for it, as many of these, is to accommodate the LOMC cartridges.  With the Decware ZP3, if you go with a LOMC, you then have to buy an additional ZMC, and get the correct one based on the cartridge.  But that means the ZP3 is focused completely on the MM and HOMC cartridges, which seems to be a good thing.  The end result though is that in the end the Decware may end up costing much higher than the $2000 upper limit.

The EAR834P seems to be highly recommended, but many of those recommendations are from people who've had it heavily modified.  In factory stock condition it is still well thought of though.  It is also possible to get the 834P for only MM, but once again in the long run that would be a questionable choice, it is probably better to get the MM/MC version at a higher price.

So it is a question, and I'll appreciate the opinions.

the_treble_with_tribbles
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,182 posts
 
2.5 MV cartridges from Dynavector have two gain options in the Dynavector phono P-75 preamp ( mk 4 ) ....

40 and 46 db

.and the reality is you can and should listen to each and decide....

all this from the great company that made your fine cartridge !!!!


1graber2's avatar
1graber2
303 posts
 
@atmasphere

Ah. Right, then :)

tough crowd over here on Agon! :)
better get my sh*t together! LOL
Thx Atmas
swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
What is terrible is that I still can't find a definitive answer or a chart to how much gain is really needed with any given cartridge mV output.
Check out the KAB gain calculator https://www.kabusa.com/pregain.htm


soundermn's avatar
soundermn
344 posts
 
I read too about the Ares, and in the Stereophile article 1/13/10, by Erick Lichte it stated " The preamp can be run in all-tube or hybrid tube/solid-state to allow it to work with any cartridge you might want to throw at it.

I see the value in the flexibility here.  But, you are paying for electronics you won't use, since you'll only use one of those options.  And, that also means there are a lot more electronics and switches in the signal path.  I don't know... but at this level, I'd think that may be sub-optimal.  

I think the same holds true for 4 gain settings vs 2.  I had the Pro-Ject RS with four settings, and found that the difference between each is small, and you'll pick one that works for your cart and stick with it.  For my 10x5, the 45db of gain is plenty. 

I also noticed that 45db on one phono preamp isn't necessarily the same level as 45db on another.  Case in point, with the Musical Surroundings, 50db was good, but with the Manley and the Pro-Ject, 45db is good, and carries a similar volume level.
flash56
33 posts
 

Manley Chinook uses FETs for the MC step-up portion. As many "tube" phono preamps do. Unless they use SUTs. The MM section is tube. So for LOMC the Manley is essentially a hybrid. However, be aware. If you use Soundsmith low output moving iron cartridges. They require a loading of ≥ 470Ω. Most phono preamps that use SUT will probably be ≈100Ω fixed. Icon PS-1 for example. A problem that I have ran into.

I have a Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC cartridge with .4mv output. My phono pre is an old Sonic Frontiers SFP-1 tube pre. It uses a FET step-up for the MC stage. It is very similar to the Manley Chinook. It is a great sounding pre. But, I was curious about SUTs never having used one. I prefer a loading of 750Ω. In order to achieve a reflective load impedance of that value. I was forced to lower the SUT to a 1:8 winding. Which cost me 2 dBv of gain. And also put me 2 dBv shy of the SFP-1 sensitivity MM rating. I had the SUT custom made anyway. In the hope that it would still work OK. Unfortunately, the SFP-1 hated it. It only has 38dBv of gain in the MM section. So it was a failed experiment in that regard.

However, I did try it with my friend's $250 Musical Fidelity VLPS. It has a higher gain MM section. So I experimented with it.  I even changed out the loading resistors to 750Ω in the MC portion of the MF VLPS. Which were originally 100Ω. When playing through the VLPS MC inputs. The sound was less than acceptable. To be expected. However when I bypassed the MC section. And went through the SUT into the MM section. It was amazingly better! Far from as good as the SFP-1. But still acceptable. A huge difference!

So now I am intrigued. And I am looking for a tube MM pre with enough gain to accommodate my SUT. I have another setup downstairs that I need a phono pre for. I have considered the Icon PS2. Which I believe is all tube (except for the rectifier, of course), PTP wiring, and has a gain of ≈ 46 dBv. It can be had right now on Audiogon for $995.00, out of Toronto. New, full warranty, free shipping to the US, and no VAT.

So if you are only in need of a MM pre. I think that you could do a lot worse. And  should you ever want to upgrade to a LOMC. You could invest in a SUT at that point. Especially if you are fond of SS cartridges. Since you would probably have to have one custom built to achieve the correct minimum reflective impedance for SS LOMC moving iron cartridges. I think that my SUT cost ≈ $350. Cheaper if you do the assembly yourself. It uses a Lundahl Transformer.

So that is an option that you might consider. Mind you, I haven't yet heard the Icon PS2. But I have read many good things about it. And it has been mentioned earlier in this post. 

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