Naim and Elac Adante, Wow

Mmeysarosh, you raised some good points, however you missed one key point, which is the Adante is a $2,500.00 set of speakers and the Kef Ref 1 which are $8,000.00 the Sopra 1 which are $9,000.00 or the B&W 805D which are $5,000.00 a pair.

Mr. Jones did not design the Adantes to be a flagship, like the Unifi series before them, the Adantes were designed to offer much of what an uber speaker system delivers for less money so compromises had to be made.

As we mentioned before the Adantes sound like a Wilson Watt Puppy 5-7 series in terms of soundstage, bass punch, and clarity.

With the Adante being built to be a $2,500.00 set of speakers they are going to have some dynamic limitations.

The Kef Ref 1 are better speakers and they should be at that kind of price difference so are the Sopras.

The point about system matching is starting to sink in you must have the right partnering gear with them which requires a bit of care and an investment in something that will match the speakers sonic flavor.

The Naim Atom works so well because the Naim sonic palate is warm midrange and good bass control and excellent punch. the top end is very smooth and even though it is 40 watts we got good volume long before the amp is running out of steam.

It is going to be interesting to see how this thread develops as more people try the Adantes with a whole bunch of different gear.

Last thought about matching, we just put out today a Quad VA amp 15 watts tube with a pair of Quad S2 loudpeakers a compact bookshelf with a ribbon, combo which was designed and voiced together sounded amazing, then played the Kef LS 50 on the same electronics and not good in comparison.

So either two things are happening either the Quad speakers are better than the LS 50 or the amp isn’t partnering well.

See goes back to that damn audiophile thing of matching speakers to amps. sources to electronics, cabling with everthing and then room tuning, positioning and tweeking.

Last point, we would take in your words a less balanced speaker system that offers so many wonderful attributes but you have to be prepared to work with vs a more balanced design that does a lot of things well but excells at few of them.

The Adantes are not perfect but if you value what they do, soundstaging, bass punch and definition, alot of clarity you will be seduced by them, they have a very life like visceral quality, if your tastes goes for  warmer midrange, less treble detail and bite, and are not into super tight bass, and want a less thrilling more romantic sound these speakers will not be for you.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

@audiotroy 

I had mentioned the results weren't surprising as the others were considerably more expensive, no missed facts and I instead used them as peers due to Steroplay's subjective scoring system. I didn't know the exact current pricing and wasn't invested enough obtain those figures, but understood they were in orders of magnitude.

I don't agree that the balance of the speaker was a budgeting factor as Andrew Jones has demonstrated the clear ability to design a neutral coax driver for considerably less. They have dynamic and resolution restrictions, but it still retains a balanced response. What I am eluding to is the speaker is specifically voiced and my impression is the goal was to create a vivid and bold sounding product. Budget considerations did come in, but it surfaced in differing manners of compromise. The first is obvious in terms of fairly mundane finishing options.

Now as for the soft dome tweeter, while its certain to have been cheaper over something like Be used in some of his past work at TAD, I do know that earlier prototypes sported both Ti and Al materials. Of the two, only Ti might be notably more costly over the soft dome and the main advantage of Ti over Al in a tweeter diaphragm resides in better internal dampening over Al. I doubt the extra fatigue or sheer strength of Ti made an impact. Strength to weight ratios are similar as are the poission's ratio. You could gain a stiffness advantage in shaping due to the lower density of Al, but shaping is more so used for dispersion over stiffness derived from shape. Why the soft dome? I honestly do believe he took advantage of the higher internal dampening, provided knowing it would serve his design better with its tailored response. A tweeter with resonance issues would have likely seen more exposure of flaws in this design than in others.

Do remember though that Kef uses an Al alloy for its high frequency driver and they applied a pretty elaborate FEA derived shaped and stiffening ring to push resonance up. Al is rather quite capable when invested into, and part in having a lower material density over Ti that gives the potential advantage. This, while not specific material cost, was certainly an engineering expense that I'm keenly aware of due to my own FEA systems that are likely a bit more extensive and horribly costly in their own right.

Where we can agree is that this speaker will require more careful pairing with partner electronics. I would not specify a specific topology on sound profile alone, but instead point to the impedance and phase response first. Since the Adante doesn't exhibit major current dependency, you are certainly more freely able to choose amplifiers that are not low ohm stable. Something that isn't true for the Focal Sopra line as an example.

Just like speakers, electronics can have a voicing. I would bet some of the Simaudio stuff would work well as would Mark Levinson (maybe either not a typical pairing). I have too little exposure to tubes to make a comment here. As for Class D, it depends on the generation and specific design. Some of the very most recent modules are a possibility and I do believe one of those mentioned Peachtree devices use the most recent 300ASP module, which is better in upper frequency response than past ICE designs. Another thought would be Classe, and considering their recent comeback and have produced a sound in recent products that might be complementing. You've certainly made a case for Naim in this regard.

Again you raise some valid points, have to diagree with a few of them.

We never thought the Unifi's the Debuts or the Pioneer spekers were neutral. 

A different perspective could be our assertion that the Adante line will be followed by a TAD like product with even better drivers, and other nicer things. The next realease will be the Argo line which is similar to Adante but with different drivers and powered. So we are estimating 2020. 

It is clear that Elac is using Mr. Jones to upgrade the public face of Elac. 

We were Elac dealers years before the Adantes and the Jet tweeter was excellent, their speakers were very refinded but they where not exciting designs. 

The other reason for changing the system could be due to parts costs which may have made the  prototypes too expensive for the price they were trying to hit when the final product would reach the shelves and if the Adante drivers were approaching TAD level for $2,500 and $5,000 speakers how could they then develop a higher end line?

Never cared for the Sim gear always sounded thin to us like the Ayre gear, so have to disagree. Haven't heard the lastest D ice modules either.

Classe has always had a darker tonal balance so yes that one coud be good.

And yes we do agree that this speaker does need careful matching but when you do you can get some very good results, as we reported the monitors remind us of the WP 7 not exactly the same but to emulate a $17k plus pair of speakers in any way is kind of an accomplishment.

To understand what Mr. Jones was thinking you should listen to his interviews. 

Nice talking with you lovely to have a civil discourse like the forums were designed to do.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

wow Audiotroy you really talk some crap! I cannot defend Vandersteen -not my cup of tea -however several people do think the Balsa skinned carbon cones are a breakthrough and I have seen the measurements -have you seen the Focal driver measurements? contact Kieth Howard and he will provide you with dozens of Focal measurements - in there most expensive lines horrible break up modes and resonances -no they are anything but Balsa clean like the Vandy 7 -this is the only Vandy i would want to own by the way  anyway those cones are incredibly free of breakup modes. As for Harbeth they have especially formulated cones that no one else has that are said to be very revealing in the all important midrange .You go on about the newer speakers sharper treble -have you not read any of the articles where this is referred to the old age hearing aid curve that speaker designers have to have so there old fart half deaf customers AudioTroys need to have to hear any detail anymore ? anyway you then stait that the Adante deliberately has a flaw in the treble because they are bringing out dearer lines -rubbish most designers try to have as few  flaws as possible the real reason is the Adante is overpriced rubbish and i'll take the German designed Elacs anyday over them  Also anyone who thinks the original Wilson watt and early puppies were accurate please i know its legal over there but lay off the weed ! +- 10 db or more errors in response give the credit to focal for the drivers not Wilson show me a square wave passed through them -time accurate like Duntech for example not even close -anyway i only read half way so far Vivid I agree about he knows his stuff shame it is just so blastard expensive cheers

Audiogod66, really!  We call em like we here em. The Adantes are a good line of speakers for the money, are they better than anything else for the price that depends on the listener and their  tastes.

We have done demos of the Elac AS 61 a $2,500.00 monitor vs both the Harbeth Compact 7 a $4k monitor and the ATC SCM 19MK II also a $4k monitor. Harbeths are intrinsically colored you can not have a box which resonates and tell me that a lively cabinet is not going to impart some desgree of coloration to the sound. 

We never stated that the Adantes have a flaw in the treble because they are bringing out a more expensive line, the Adantes are built to a price point that fact that they actually aquint themselves very well vs some of the most highgly respected monitors the Harbeth and the ATC for example talks volumes about how good they are for the price. 

We would never expect a $2,500.00 set of monitors to be pefect and are willing to overlook their flaws vs what they do well for the price. 

Also we never said anywhere that the original WP were accurate they were not, they were however one of the best selling expensive pairs of loudspeakers that ever hit the market because they were exciting and dynamic sounding loudspeakers. 

As per the original German Elacs we owned them and they were very nice speakers, they were however, not a particular good value for the money and were generally eclipsed by the Dali loudspeakers we were selling at the time. 

Most of the top loudspeaker manufacturers makes pistonic drivers, do you honestly think B&W or KEF who are giant companies with huge resources can't make a cone which is pistonic?

As per Duntech sold em in the past, they weren't that good, as per Vivid excellent speakers, we prefered the new Paradigm Personas and the Kef Reference but the Vivid's were excellent. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ