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Speakers "Disappearing"

I have read a lot about speakers "disappearing" so that one can't tell from where the sound is emanating. But, what about all the stereo tunes where the recordiing engineer intentionally pans the music to come from one side or the other? Can the speakers be made to "disappear" in that situation? Or, is it just the nature of the particular recording?
rlb61
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 


Most speakers will disappear better if you:
1. Pull them well out from the rear wall 1- 2mts. and at least 1mt from the side walls
2. Reduce toe in, so you can just see the inner side of the speakers from your listening position.
3: The biggie: get rid of all the image and depth sapping racks, equipment, and anything else from in between your speakers, put them on the side or behind you, this will open up a whole new world of image and depth for you, more than anything else.
Neville Thiel rip (from Thiel an Small speaker design fame) told me this ages ago and he was so correct.
That’s when you go to HiFi Shows the demo’s that have the best image and depth are the ones with nothing between the speakers, because they know.

Cheers George
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio
1,019 posts
 

Hi Corelli and Drewster, Great to see some Tunees on Audiogon.

Those reading this thread should think about how big a recorded stage really is. They're a lot bigger than your typical High End Audio system playback suggest.

I remember working with the Stereophile and TAS reviewers, introducing them to the bigger stage event. For about 3 years, back in the 90's, I was like the big stage missionary on call :)

The high end part of the hobby got weird there for a few years, but it's quickly getting back on track.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

akaim8's avatar
akaim8
28 posts
 

all excellent responses and information- YES- the real soundstage while recording or live is much larger than our living rooms, that's why moving speakers APART further, dramatically increases the effect.  my speakers are 28' apart and if I could put them 40 feet apart, I would.  we did tests at my relative's house out in his back yard, with a high-powered solid state rig.  first off, I replaced the speaker wire with the largest diameter I could find, bougth a big spool of it at Radio Shack.  cut it in half, and put half that spool on each speaker side- for maximum length.  then we put the speakers at their furthest distance that wire would allow.  WOW.  the biggest soundstage from a home stereo I ever heard and saw in my life.  it was like a concert.  amazing, and impressive.

#2, yes get rid of anything between the speakers- but I'll take that one step further, simply RAISE the speakers up over everything, using wall shelves specially built to the footprint of your speakers, in each corner of the listening room. presto- nothing between speakers anymore, other than maybe pictures flat against the wall, or a clock.  again- dramatic improvement in soundstage, in this case- DEPTH is increased to a high degree.  it makes drums on a rock band recording sound like they are set up 15 feet away outside your house.

twoch
429 posts
 
I turn the lights off. That
Will help.  
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948
502 posts
 
@georgehifi - I downloaded the Chesky DJ37 sampler and setup test disc from HDTracks.com. Thanks much for the recommendation.

My system passed the track 10 - "Left-Right Imaging" and track 11 - "Listening Environment Diagnostic Recording" tests with flying colors, and to a lesser degree it passed the track 12 - "Acoustic Soundstage" test. After running the tests, I realize I’m a lot closer to where I want to be but still have some tweaking to do.

Having said that, when I play my usual music, my speaker’s do not "disappear" and the soundstage isn’t as wide or deep as I’d like. I believe that is due to the lack of depth reproduction because my four-level 48x20" rack sits between and only slight behind my speakers. I could possibly remedy that by moving my rack towards the back of a side wall and placing my power amp near the front wall between the speakers. My listening room is relatively small (13.5’x11.5’x8’) so I’m somewhat space constrained.

On a side note, I just ordered a PS Audio DirectStream DAC (they have a sale on), and I’m auditioning the LTA ZOTL40 Reference amplifier. The LTA amp sounds so good in my system. But before I do anything, I want to hear what the DSD does to the SQ and soundstage with the LTA amp and go from there.

This has been a very informative thread and I found it at just the right time for me!

Regards - Johnnie
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