subwoofers and panels don't mix

i owned the centaur minor. as soon as i heard the first note, it sounded like two different speakers.

the problem is a lack of coherence. a ribbon midrange and cone bass create a discontinuity. i have always been able to distinguish the difference between cones and panels.

i believe i can identify a cone driver when it is combined with dissimilar driver.

it may be possible to disguise the presence of a cone if the main speaker is not crossed over to the sub. if the sub rolls off with a steep slope at say 45 hz, you may be able to blend the two driver types creating a a seamless blend for most listeners. however, an experienced listener will probably detect the presence of a cone.

personally, i will wait for magnepan to design a panel driver capable of producing frequencies below 40 hz.

Shadorne has a great point. Another thing I found during the Maggie subwoofer debacle is that Maggies seem to be very linear in output power (or sound pressure) relative to input power from the amplifier.

Subs (and most dynamic speakers in my experience), tend to
be more logrithmic, which happens to be more like the way we hear. Not that the comparison between panels and dynamic speakers is bad, just that they are different.

That difference seems to lead to an imbalance between
panel level and sub level with different source material
and differences in recording levels and different levels in individual songs. I found myself getting driven crazy adjusting the sub volume versus panel level even within
1 song or when I changed albums. That level problem even more than the dissimilar speaker mating problem led me to give up on the process and just listen to the panels full range.

Best of luck, I hope you have better results in your quest.
An electronic crossover is helpful, but has other issues that seem to go along with it (phas and staging issues mostly).

RFG

Harry Pearson and RF Gumby got very, very different results with the Carver subwoofer mated to Maggies. I suspect that neither one is deaf, and that neither one is incompetent, and that neither one is dishonest.

So, what happened?

Different room acoustics is what happened. The Carver's slightly pumped-up deep bass worked well in Harry's room, but not in Gumby's.

The room's effect is huge in the bass region - hence my preference for systems that are inherently room-friendly and have a wide range of adjustability. Dipoles are inherently room-friendly in the bass region; that is, because a pair of dipoles has the inherent in-room smoothness we'd expect from four monopoles (two of which are out of phase), their bass doesn't vary as much from one room to another, nor from one location to another within a given room (except of course if you stand in the side nulls).

Mrtennis, can you tell us the price of the 40 Hz Maggie subwoofer that you heard?

Do you know if Magnepan has plans to develop a larger version? Bass comparable to the 20.1 would be nice, assuming price isn't prohibitive.

Duke

Mr T....this may be what you are looking for Emperor (Check under products for Emperor loudspeaker)

Impractical perhaps but since when has esoteric Hi-Fi been practical.

20 electrostatic "woofer" panels should get you 110 db SPL down to 20 Hz!

hi duke:

i called magnepan today. the woofer that i heard at ces 2007 is not in production yet. it is still a prototype.

shadorne, thanks for the reference to abraxas speakers.

i think that for now i will live with the limitations of the magnepan and not purchase a subwoofer.

hopefully the martin logan clx has "enough" bass and is not too expensive.