Zu Druid IV - the real deal?

Been listening to Ani Difranco's live album Living in the Clip. 2cd of many of her concert tours mixed beautifully without all that applause. Afer listening to the first track: I never heard a kick drum (the entire drum set in fact) sound so real, dynamic, palpable, in your face, right there, as my Defintions allow this wonderful cd to happen. Then it happens again with guitar electric on the next track. Oooh. Measurements? Doesn't matter what they are, what you tell me they are, what they are not, etc. I know what I hear in my crib, hooked up to my rig. And the sound has been gettin more exiciting and revealing with age. Remarkable speakers. I know, I know, these are not the Druids, but they are quite amazing and worth a try if you're thinking of a change and have $9k to drop. I haven't been around this block in a while, but when are saw cobra and macrojack: I couldn't resist...

Well that's the kind of answer I expected.

Macro.

Where the problem comes in is you SAY that the X-speaker has superior phase, dynamics, linear frequency response, etc. All easily measurable attributes. But you don't measure which means you don't really "know", because you only know what you've been told what has been suggested. How do you KNOW if you have a properly working pair of speakers in the first place?

I've been talking to Sean since he was at Kimber, much longer than you have I'm sure. My point is you drop all these technical attributes and say that speaker X is superior to Y and For Z reason, and yet you've no facts on how speaker X is actually performing or Y for that matter. If you're going to say it like its a fact then back it up with something substantial.

"I am sure that you will find that Sean Casey at Zu can answer your questions about measurements and design decisions."

This is not about Sean Casey, this is about YOU talking about stuff you don't have any proof of but using it to run down other products and Zu at the same time. Saying measurements don't matter!? Sean busted his ass researching and testing that speaker, and poof, in a sentence you say its meaningless. The driver was a lucky guess...do you realise that is what you imply when you simply dismiss measurements as meaningless?

"God made winter and created me naked. And every year I put on clothes because the artist set me up to freeze to death if I don't."

So its god's fault you decide to live where it gets cold? :)I don't think so Einstein, I don't remember any mention of winter in the Garden of Eden.

What bearing does that have on Zu or this discussion?

You're misrepresenting the performance of the speaker. You downplay all the engineering that went into the speaker and thus you create conflict for ZU. Your good intentions are creating negativity because you don't know what you're talking about, except when you say you like them. That I believe, the rest is unusable.

"It sounds like you are attempting to position yourself as superior to that established manufacturer."

Typical SP audiophile, no I used that example to show you that if you don't have measurements your ability to do quality control is suspect at best, listening experience is not valuable over long time frames without something to base the experiences. My comment are all about you and your comments about how you prefer to feel around in the dark instead of learning facts about audio.

"I don't know the weight of my car keys, the height of my mulberry tree or the time it takes me to shave."

Well if you were to say in conversation you shaved the fastest, you had a larger than average Mulberry tree and the heaviest set of car keys on the planet, ie all the relative qualitative comments about your speakers. Then I would expect, you could back up your comments with some relevant facts. Or without some sense of timing how could I even begin to quantify your shaving speed. How many times do you think you'd could tell me really really really fast, before I'd go, yeah you shave fast :( ...?

I'm just asking you to be fair, you picked on Bartokfan who makes me roll my eyes too, but you're just as bad, just more subtle about it.

Am I making my point?

Macrojack you obviously have't heard of Bill. Don't pass judgement on his fund of knowledge regarding speakers. His primary work is repairing every type of speaker there is and very little manufacturing he can modify the sound of virtually any speaker extant but he has chosen to stop doing that because he is an obssesive perfectionist of the highest order and he is now getting into his 60s. He has a national reputation for extremely fine exacting work.He owns many of the finest speakers ever made. He was profiled in 6 moons. I'm sorry you are simply unaware of of people who are truly masters, he has only been doing this for just short of 50 years his father owned a repair shop where helped out. I guess you can't take my word for it but he knows of what he speaks. I think your attack on him is a shameful act of complete ignorance. You really think you could hold a candle in this regard with Bill. No he is not a Zu person but if you brought them in broken he would be able to diagnose the issue very quickly and most likely fix it but he would be extremely careful being the unreal prefectionist he is. The simple fact that he is neither a Zu enthusiast (nor detractor) doesn't disqualify him or anyone and everyone else. From knowing speakers in a way very few of us could ever aspire to.
On a completely different topic I forgot to add that burning in a speaker with tube amps that you are using precious older tubes shortens their life so you might want to take out your finest tubes before burning them for 24 hours a day for 2 weeks.

213Cobra or anyone...could you please clarify this statement

"A key characteristic that drives the unusual tonal excellents and coherence to the Zu sound is absence of crossovers. You don't have to accept the tonally disruptive effects of crossovers, and the dynamic constriction they inevitably cause. Being free of crossovers can take some getting used to, as can the phase linearity of the full-range driver design, but the behavior of these design attributes is startlingly reinforcing of your illusion of musical reality from recorded performances. The jump factor of very high efficiency combined with a strong-motor driver that is as dynamically engaging as real instruments only adds to the value of Zu's speakers in an overhyped market."

This is why I am confused. I don't understand why I would have to get use to the sound of a speaker. My effort was to build a system that sounds like real instruments in the now, not after some time getting use to them.

If my niece was to play piano in the same room with the speakers, wouldn't they both sound the same?

Dave if your niece were playing her piano next to a $250k rig, you'd hear the difference in a jiff. Now if she were playing an electric piano or an electric guitar, that would be a different story. But acoustic? We're not even close. Great stereo cannot approach live acoustic sound, but it can sure make it fun, to say the least.