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Vandersteen Sub woofers v Rythmik Subs

I really love the idea of the Vandersteen Subs where they are connected with the mains via extra speaker cable off right and left channels off the main amplifier, which is supposed to provide better bass transition from the mains while keeping the signature from the main amplifier. My question is with Vandersteen coming out with the SUB THREE and the price going significantly higher, I was wondering if there are other subs for less that you could integrate in the same way. (Most subs seem to rely on the line level input which is just a sub-woofer RCA going from the pre-amp to the amp on the sub). Can this same Vandersteen set-up be achieved with other subs?
I picked Rythmik since they are known (in the home theater community anyway) for being one of the best bang for the buck subs and the most "musical" of the bunch. (between Hsu, SVS, PSA).
And could I possibly achieve even greater sub-woofer nirvana since I could get an 18" for around $1500? Vandies only have 3 eight inchers.

I am a Vandersteen fanboy and I would like to support RV whenever I can, but don’t know much about my other sub-woofer options so looking for some feedback. Doesn’t even have to be related to Rythmik necessarily. If you know of other subs that can integrate the same way I want to know about it!

Thanks
bstatmeister
docknow
307 posts
 
The Martin-Logan BalancedForce subs have the ability to use a speaker cable input.  I have been wondering how that might compare to RCA or XLR input.  Anyone ever try this?
bstatmeister OP
536 posts
 
05-07-2018 4:04pmHi bstatmeister,

Here’s an excellent alternative if you want state of the art bass response and your room can accomodate this system in your room.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system/

I was considering buying 2 very good subs (Vandersteen, REL or JL) a few yrs ago but bought a distributed bass array system instead based on a lot of in room bass response research I read online and the numerous very good reviews of the Audio Kinesis bass system.
At first listen in my room, I was amazed at the quality of the bass produced and how well it integrated with my main speakers. 2 yrs later, I’m still extremely pleased and I don’t believe 2 or fewer conventional subs would be capable of producing this level of quality bass response in my 23 x16 foot room.
This is a great option if you prefer bass that is tonally accurate, natural but still able to go as deep and impactful as .the recording calls for

There’s only one other person on this forum that I’m aware of who uses a distributed bass array sub system. I forgot his user ID but I remember we both agreed on another thread that it’s hard to overstate how well this concept actually works in our rooms.

System Pros:
-Performs and integrates well with virtually any brand and type of main speakers.
-Performs equally well for both music and home theater sources.
-Gives good bass response throughout the entire room, not just at a single’sweet-spot’.
-Relatively affordable at about $3,000 for the entire bass system: 4 subs and a 1,000 watt class AB amp. About the same price as 2 high quality conventional self-powered subs.

System Cons:
-Requires the space in your room for four 3 foot tall subs with about a 1 sq. ft. footprint.
-Requires a precise and time consuming setup procedure for sequentially locating the exact position of each sub in your room for optimum results. It took me about 2 hrs with a friend assisting to setup my 4 subs. Once this initial positioning process is completed, however, no further work is needed unless you move your system to another room or house.
-Depending on your room, concealing the speaker wires could be difficult. I drilled a hole underneath each sub and hid the wiring in the crawl space underneath my living room. A real pain the ass but probably something I won’t be doing again anytime soon.

Just an alternative option you may want to consider.

Tim
Wow, thanks Tim, I had no idea a product like this was out there and at a comparatively low price to boot. Here are the things I would worry about: the WAF (yep the WAF strikes again for this one)
Integration with the mains - Does it do it the way the Vandersteens do with an external cross-over that lowers the output 6db? Also the Vandersteens keep the signal in the analog realm. Is my understanding of the AudioKenesis that a DSP would be involved to manage the bass? If so, I think that would turn me off. I want that signal as analog as possible.
bondmanp
1,792 posts
 
AFAIK, nobody integrates subs the way Vandersteen does it.  Even the REL, which takes a speaker-level feed from the amp, doesn't offer a HP filter for the mains.  Every other sub I am aware of, if they offer speaker level inputs, it is to run the entire signal through the crossover within the sub's plate amp.  And the quality of those crossovers can vary widely.  That's why most prefer to use line level connections for the subwoofer and do the HP filter elsewhere (preamp/processor, external crossover, etc.).  Vandersteen is the only sub that takes the signal from the main amplifier without taking any power from it, and leaves the HP filtered signal alone once it is run through the Vandersteen resistor or M5-HP crossovers.
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,869 posts
 
Accused fanboy but IF you are running Vandersteen mains, the whole shooting match of Sub and Main have been developed to work together especially impulse FFT in the Anechoic chamber....
RV ( on the way to Munich ) would probably emphasize the analog nature of the approach, not a big fan of digital
the new sub 3 comes with 11 band analog EQ
iF you run AMROC ( or other tools on your room ), there will be many, many nodes.
DSP algorithms tend ( note my careful choice of word ) to goal seek ultra flat, which ends up lifeless.
you might also not a Vandersteen bias in EQ ranges ( cut vs boost ), there is thinking, logic, physics behind that )
preserving the transfer function by running thru the main amp is important, but it is understandable why other steep slope manufacturers don’t care as they hacked the transfer function out the window :-)
jim T got it too, but he is unfortunately dead
swarm has a ton of  theoretical and practical merit, with obvious WAF issues, you can get similar some would say better results with two subs because there is a narrow sweetspot anyway ( see Jim Smith book )
have fun in your search !!!!!!

wolf_garcia
6,644 posts
 
I've been using a pair of RELs (Q150e and Q108II) for years with excellent  results paired with a couple of different main speakers and amps. REL's "High Level" input of course keeps the mains full range, puts a benign 100,000 ohm load on the amp (crowded speaker posts on the amp, but good connectors and it's fine), and the subs are easy to adjust for crossover point, phase, and level. Bought both subs used at different times for 200 bucks each. So it would seem that Vandy (nice company, I've owned a pair of 1Bs) clearly isn't the only company with "amp power" connections. 
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