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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

I want to touch on the car, but first let me give you guys a little insight into my job of "doing" (the walk). About every day I get a call or email asking me to do some testing. This morning for example I was asked to test the sound of different materials used by the state of Illinois in building residential properties. In particular the 3M product called "fire-block" vs the other brands.

What I will be doing is making a testing jig so I can hear the results when using 12-2 and 14-2 Romex. I will be testing literally dozens of different competitors and then make my recommendations.

You might say "so what". And that would be cool, unless your one of the hundreds of thousands of listeners who want to go further. For every guy out there saying their system is just fine there are 40 saying "I wish I could....". They come up on this and other audio forums every day reading to see if they can find an answer to their questions. Why don’t they post? One of the major reasons is they know that many folks posting probably are offering their opinions on topics they have never, or with limited experience, researched more than reading what someone else thinks. How do I know this first hand? I have a list of emails from this very forum to get to almost every day since I have started visiting. Am I the answer? Nope, I’m the messenger. You’re the answer and I’m here to give the encouragement to try. If your not interested, then my question is, why did you post? And what are you going to say to those folks who do start to walk, or have been walking?

The starting points I have been talking about cost you the listener zero dollars, or very little. The most interesting part to this is, this is the future of the hobby for the music adventurist, and it has been happening for a very very long time.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Now on the car topic. The reason they sound the way they do is because of the pressure they are able to create because of the small space. Simple Q & A that can be tackled by any auto audio guy. If folks want to put their spin on it, that's up to them but it will end back at the same place. Your listening to materials, vibration and pressure.

So lets get to the Talk & Walk on this topic briefly. When talking about car stereos and the way they work, how many of you have stripped the car down to the frame and then built it back up again for sound reasons? Some of you probably have, but if not you'd be surprised about what you can learn about car sound from taking it all the way down to the frame and building it back up.

To answer the suspension question, we tested our cars by listening and testing them while sitting on their wheels and also jacking them up off the wheels. Having them resting on their wheels sounds mushy (rubbery) as compared to coupling them to the floor and lifts. Raising them also made them far more tunable.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

jafant's avatar
jafant
19,990 posts
 
Good to see you here -MG.
As always, very insightful and interesting thread. Can be speak about your different tuning rooms and the gear contained within each space?
I want to learn more about the electronics and cabling that you musical ears enjoy.
Happy Listening!
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Note to self: if cars were mounted on rubber tires only it would be one helluva bumpy ride. 🚗
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,520 posts
 
Also car speakers are typically surface mounted which limits ability to do imaging the way home setups can.  Not to mention the tweeters mounted far away from the woofs which totally eliminates any chance of decent imaging.  Then the panels and such they are mounted in often tend to vibrate and muck up the sound to some extent. Then there is the background noise thing. Ability to pressurize a smaller space is the one thing car audio has going for it over home.

I recently leased an Acura TLX with their ELS sound system. Best sounding I’ve heard in a car in a while. Seems to have a handle on the issues including using active noise cancellation. Apple play with a high res source sets a pretty decent bar. Last car was a Toyota Avalon with JBL sound system. That was way more prone to the usual car audio acoustic vices.


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