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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Update on my low mass Sony Walkman CD player. I’m now using “modded” Grado SR-60 headphones, which are stripped of their god awful sounding foam pads. The Walkman itself is isolated on a one off version of my Woody the Woodpecker isolation stand, which simulates the physical characteristics of a woodpecker’s head and tissue surrounding the brain, all of which is carefully constructed to prevent injury to the woodpecker’s brain when subjected to high frequency high negative g forces whilst pecking wood. The isolation stand incorporates springs, a glass bowl filled with glass micro beads, a large number of glass crystal weights that provide high mass for the springs and such niceties as Moingo disc and a bunch of the NASA grade ceramic cones from Golden Sound that act as node dampers, exit points. There are some other things I can’t really discuss as they draw too much heat. Maybe later. 
aalenik
67 posts
 

Michael, I know that your intent is virtuous.  But some recordings simply ARE better-sounding than others.  It's true that a well-tuned system will present MORE recordings well, but never ALL of them. And tuning a system to optimize a poor recording will very likely compromise its presentation of better ones... and that's simply crazy.  OTOH, if you tune your system to optimize the very best recordings, many of the poorer ones will sound better.  Yes, a more revealing presentation may reveal flaws as well.  But do you want to tune to mask those flaws.  What else may you be masking?

BTW, a poor recording is one that doesn't sound as well as others on my system, your system, and most every system we play it on.

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi bdp24

"My point was, that to say a drum can go out-of-tune when moved from one room to another in nonsense"

Next time I talk to the school or personally give one of these demos I will give them your comments. It will be interesting to hear their take. I already have mine after giving this demo scores of times.

here's another one you might find interesting

If you check out Positive Feedback's article on me "Recording the Michael Green way" you will see one of my studios that we did the demo in. Also while doing the recording the article talks about an interesting thing happened. The pianist was playing while I made an adjustment to one of my mechanical/acoustical devices. He shouted out "wait what did you just do" I told him that I changed the tension (there I used your word) on the PZC. He asked me to go back to the setting I had before and I did of course. He then asked another player to sit down and play while I did it again (Robert Barstow). They were amazed that when I adjusted the tension on the PZC that it changed the tension on the keys.

Like I said this thread is about actually doing.

thanks again for your point

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

aalenik

Again it's a matter of doing. It's not really a point for debate but actually experiencing it. On this thread I would be wasting my time and yours if I were to pitch you on something that isn't the case. But, I understand that unless a person actually does something it can seem ify.

Since Tj is on this thread I'll ask him if he would like to comment.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi Geoff

Thanks for the update. I know you were working with several different players, even cassettes. Are those still in use? I thought it very interesting when you went from the HEA setup to the low mass Walkmans.

You know it's weird I think that so many folks pick on the portable units being sold, and when talking to them I discover they have never really listened to the modern portables. This whole low mass thing really throws HEA audiophiles off for some reason. Around show time CES here I try to make it to some portable demos.

Technology is something else.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

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