Speaker recomendation

And finally as a 2nd home owner where music is also hyper important, I purposefully ( and with a lot of guidance from my mentors ) set out on a somewhat different path than my main system.
i chose one button iPad controlled streaming and NAS drive access for spouse and her family and sweet pure analog for me, trying to not duplicate TT rigs in two places....

everybody has a different flavor

you seem like you are spending a lot of time thinking first :-)

@Igoler

"However, @soix was probably right to call Dave out for bashing his recommendation, maybe that wasn't cool, but I can also respect that Dave feels that the AZ's aren't offering as much value as what he's recommending."

THIS IS PRECISELY THE CRUX OF THE PROBLEM HERE.  I really don't mean to prolong this, but the main problem keeps getting swept aside under the guise of audiotroy's "advice."  It's NOT that he's pushing his own brands, which as others noted he's free to do here (although I'll note he does it much more frequently and forcefully than any other manufacturers or retailers here).  It's specifically that they also berate or marginalize other recommendations and/or competitive products.  Whether it's altruistic or not is completely irrelevant.  Look at your case right here:

"but I can also respect that Dave feels that the AZ's aren't offering as much value as what he's recommending."

BINGO.  RIGHT THERE IS THE PROBLEM.  When Dave is pushing his products here he shouldn't be sharing what he "FEELS" (or anything else for that matter) about another recommendation or product if he doesn't sell it.  Look how he just potentially affected your perception of my recommendation versus the product HE SELLS.  It's a pure conflict of interest.  And in this case his "FEELINGS" were based on hearing the Crescendos in a show setting.  What???  Tell you what, here's what a couple respected and veteran reviewers said of these speakers when auditioned in their own systems with their own equipment:

Dick Olsher from Absolute Sound
"The Crescendo comes about as close to being an ideal resistive load as one can expect from a box speaker. It’s the sort of dream load every pentode amp would appreciate.
Acoustic Zen’s Robert Lee has crafted a magnificent transmission-line speaker, truly a perfectionist labor of love. The Crescendo is eminently musical and supremely well-integrated from top to bottom. It certainly pushed of all my emotional buttons and is currently my favorite box speaker under $30k. Make no mistake about it: The Crescendo is a fantastic value at its asking price. An enthusiastic five-star recommendation!"

Or Dave Clark from Positive Feedback:
"As a side note, the Crescendos did arrive with a complete set of measurements that are rather stunningly flat and overall quite excellent in all respects being very reminiscent of how the Tetons measure after the DEQX 'treatment'. Of which all points to Robert having done it right.
The Crescendos are a speaker that will open a door to what is in your music. They are a true audio "tool" to not only hear and see how the music was recorded, but to realize what is going on in your system. They will reveal things about your music and system that you might not want to know—they are honest and pure. For the $16000 you get an amazingly well-thought and a beautiful loudspeaker (fit and finish are superb) that competes with other designs costing several times their more 'affordable' price. How Robert does it, I have no idea as these are a true assault in defining a full-range SOTA loudspeaker. I loved my short time with the speakers and found them a wonderful window into my music. Kudos to Robert and the AZ team."

But then there's that DaveTroy "FEELS" the Crescendos aren't offering as much value as what he's recommending due to his hearing them at a couple audio shows.  That'd be suspect enough as a response from any regular member, but that HE'S SELLING what he's recommending in these circumstances MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE HERE.  Look at other reputable manufacturers and retailers here such as atmasphere, pbnaudio, audioconnection, and note how they NEVER, EVER, downplay another product or recommendation in favor of one of their own products despite undoubtedly having strong opinions.  They know better.  They have class.  They respect the mission of this site and they do it right. 

So here's the thing -- that I at all felt the need to have to come back on here and defend and support my prior recommendation AGAINST THE WORDS OF A RETAILER pushing his own product while detracting from mine is what makes audiotroy's behavior detrimental and a serious threat to this site.  (Your own statement shows that his words affected your opinion of my recommendation).  They may try to cloak their sales tactics under the guise of providing "honest" opinions, but the damage is still being done.  

Last thought.  Some people may still be willing to sweep audiotroy's tactics under the rug because they sometimes provide some seemingly unbiased information and help.  But if they can continue to get away with criticizing and undermining other's recommendations here, what will this site become when other retailers start doing the same thing here?  Will it still seem helpful then?  It's a slippery slope, and I for one sincerely hope this stops here and now before it gets further out of hand and significantly undermines the usefulness and purpose of this site.  Once again -- Peace out. 

@Igoler,You should audition a pair of ProAc D48R. Very musical.

@milpai thanks.  ProAc definitely on the radar.

Soix, you sound like just another hurt audiophile whose product missed the Absolute Sound or Stereophile’s recommended components list and is now offended.

We mentioned that the AZ products were okay, not good not bad. sure there will always be some mention on some show or in a review of how good that product is. However, the point we were making is the market speaks volumes. Your Postitive Feedback mention was old from 2012 the current price of the speakers is $25k.

What we said about the Zen products WE WERE DEALERS! So we actually have first hand knowlege of how their products sound and in all areas as well AS HOW THEY ACTUALLY COMPARE TO THE COMPETITION, the Zen’s were beaten as both a cable company and as a speaker vendor, which is WHY WE DON"T SELL THEM any more.

So Soix, you think we are bashing them because we don’t sell their products you are wrong. WHAT MAKES OUR OPINIONS VALUABLE is actual experience.

Sure you may think that never mentioning the areas where product x has issues, is classy, we don’t and if you are honest when compariing two or more products you will have an opinion, and guess what on doing a comparison you will weigh both products, in the good side and the bad side your opinion formed would be something, like I love the Mercedes x class, good fuel economy, great engine and styling, but compared to the BMW 5 series the BMW has a better engine, nearly as good styling, but has a bigger trunk and better fuel economy so even though I really like the Mercedes, I think ultimately I will go for the BMW.

Soix this is how actually people make up their minds, strengths vs weakness on all products, and the one that is selected wins the most points.

People learn about a product by comparision, and unfortunatly in this country it may be impossible to find someone who has experience with that product, and as mentioned AZ has a decent amount of dealers how many pairs of AZ speakers are actually available to listen to throughout the country?

We are willing to bet there are very few AZ speaker dealers currently displaying speakers, also how many $25k 100% made in China speakers are currently actually selling in the market?

You may ask what is the relevancy? If a product sells you may actually be able to audition it and not be flying or buying blindly, also this affects resale and your ability to ultimately move the product if you decide to.

Again answer the question if most people here had $25k to purchase a set of speakers, how many would be seeking out a set of Crecendo’s to audition, vs Wilson, Focal, Rockport, Paradigm, Martin Logan etc.

If you think that we are China bashers we are not, we had a good run with Usher loudspeakers which are also 100% made in China, the difference was that Usher makes 100% of their own parts in house and at the time whose speakers like the BE 10 were selling for a lot less then a compariable high end American made speaker. The BE 10 offered a Beryillium tweeter and Beryillium midrange driver plus an Eaton woofer in a 230lb cabinet for $14k that was for a brand new set of loudspeakers.

No Soix we are not bashing AZ, as you seem to think we are disagreeing with your recommendation, that they are a great contender.

We will say that the AZ will accomplish serveral of the requirements for a large space so sonically they would do the job and we can at least agree with you that in terms of filling up a large room they are both somewhat efficient and have good low bass capabliity however, are they worth that $25k that is the question or would possibly a pair of Legacy Focus do the job for brand new set of speakers for $11k?

Your comment on the Aeris being a contender for a shootout is valid from a price perspective but sonically, a well set up set of Focus come really close to the magic of a much more expensive set of speakers. If you heard the sound that Legacy was getting at the NY Audio show you would have though the Focus was a $25k speaker not a $11k one.

Again ask yourself the question, if you were going to purchase at full retail would that product be on your radar, if the answer is yes, then we humbly beg for your forgiveness, if the answer is no for $25k that speaker wouldn’t be on my short list than lets see who is right?

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ