How much do I need to spend to get a preamp that sounds better than no preamp?

kosst, believe me when I say I am not going ape. As I said, I find your argumentative nature annoying, but amusing, and actually look forward to your next " outburst ". I cannot speak for George.  Enjoy ! MrD.

I think your the one that needs to lay off the false claims about passives with blanket statements about their ability to drive ect ect. Every time they are bought up, your on it to protect active preamps.
Here is a person you should kneel to as he is one who makes active preamps for a reason which I’ve outlined, yet he is man enough to tell what it is about passives that’s the real deal. You just deny them as a whole, just like the "detriments" of a certain autoformer.

I have math to back me up on all my claims. I have also been careful to point out that passives can work fine if one is careful in the setup.

You are protesting just a little bit too loudly...
I've got nothing bad to say about Nelson- he is a brilliant designer and I often point out in my posts that he makes some of the best solid state gear out there.

Its my opinion that its a lot harder to build a solid state preamp that's going to sound right; Nelson does a pretty good job but maybe his passives are showing up some problems with his active preamps (if not, you are the expert on his quotes- you figure it out). Our customers seem to think our gear sounds better (probably why they are our customers instead of someone else's...), but we have a lot of customers that run Nelson's amps with our preamps: we have customers in common. And we are on good terms with the folks at Pass Labs.

Saying that everyone that sells active preamps is just in it for the money and somehow that someone selling passives isn't is as hypocritical as it gets.

IOW, you just attack active preamps because you want to sell more. Its not because your gear works any better!
So how does that feel George?

That's the sort of crap that you lay at other's doors. The simple fact is, I have no idea what your motivation is (just as you have no idea of my motivations), I wrote that accusation so you can see how it feels. I've heard  the Lightspeed and it works fine in the right circumstances. I keep trying to be reasonable with you but you  keep going off like a five dollar pistol. Perhaps you can tone it down a little- I can easily demonstrate situations where an active works with less coloration than a passive, and I can demonstrate situations where a passive offers no coloration as well.
Its all in the setup.

I **know** you know that.

Lay off the crap.

Saying that everyone that sells active preamps is just in it for the money and somehow that someone selling passives isn’t is as hypocritical as it gets.

Yes I was drawing a long bow there, yes there is a place for active preamps when, poweramps have stupid low input impedance, and if their input sensitivity is higher than 2v, eg FW F5. This is when active preamps are needed.

I’ve heard the Lightspeed and it works fine in the right circumstances.

I’m glad, and the right circumstances can be 90% of the time, if amps input is more than >33kohm and input sensitivity is less than <2v.

I’ve got nothing bad to say about Nelson- he is a brilliant designer and I often point out in my posts that he makes some of the best solid state gear out there.

"I’ve got nothing bad to say about Nelson"

And no you shouldn’t, nor should anyone else here who want to question what he’s said, if they want to then go to http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/ site and try to tell him there direct and see how long you last, as those technically superior like NP wouldn’t waist their time here with the BS that’s put forth on these forums .

Lay off the crap.

Ditto back at ya sunshine.

Cheers George

There are a few sources that require active preamp, without while your system sounds lifeless. I had Logitech Bluetooth receiver which was one such example. Similarly connecting the headphones out from a mp3 player to a passive also sounds lifeless. I use a TVC.