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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
prof wrote,

”But for anyone who thinks like this, if they are spending, or about to spend lots of time and money on a tweak, I’d expect they would actually want to know if that tweak actually alters the sound of the system, in reality. If someone really would rather not spend money on a false claim, then seeing the case for being skeptical can be quite enlightening or useful.

If you for instance take a look at the length many of the Michael Green "Tuners" go to, it’s really quite something to behold. Components taken apart, strewn between speakers, everything carefully arrange on special wood blocks etc. Now, If that’s what someone gets a kick out of doing...I would never want to say "don’t do it." Hey, everyone likes to have a hobby.

BUT...for anyone who really cares about not wasting their time and money on something that is only in their imagination - and I tend to doubt that many would choose to have the rather unsightly splaying of components and wires in their room if they didn’t think it was improving their sound - for those people seeing a skeptical case presented that they may be doing just that, can actually be beneficial.”

>>>Surely you must realize your latest volley of dismissive anti tweak jibber jabber has no relationship to honest debate or even supports your initial whinings that the claims of sound improvement are unprovable or deceptive or whatever. Now it appears you have chosen some sort of weird attack on the nature of Tuning, e. g., wasting their time, components taken apart, carefully arrange everything on special wooden blocks, unsightly splaying of components and wires, etc. I understand you don’t wish to walk the walk. You are obviously a rank beginner with a grudge. Could do do us a favor and refrain from trying to talk the talk? You never want to say “don’t do it?” Huh? Are you crazy. That’s exactly what you’re saying. Hel-loo! Fake! Fake! Fake!
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Moops, I don’t need SR-80s where I’m going. I’m going back! Back to the Future! As the bumper sticker on the back of the extra wide load 18 wheeler going up the long mountain road said, I may be slow but I’m ahead of you. I reckon you’re at least two paradigm shifts behind the power curve. Fake! Fake! Fake!
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
glupson
prof,

I may want to do a blind test for fun and to get more confidence in the result. But I may also not bother and think "Well, seems I heard enough difference, liked it, I’ll keep it in the system."

This is called level-headed mature approach. At least, I would like to think that it is as it is exactly the way I do things.

>>>>It goes without saying any dedicated pseudo skeptic should keep a Blind Test in his arsenal of tweakaphobic rhetoric. Nice move! And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if both of you actually did them. Lots of laughs! It’s always heart warming to see pseudo skeptics nurture each other. 👨‍❤️‍👨
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

glupson
mapman,

Walkman! Now you are really talking.

>>>>I not only talk the talk and walk the walk. I also walk the Walkman. Walkman is for those who walk the walk, not those who only talk the talk - actually not really talk so much, more like jibber jabber. 🤡
cd318
2,636 posts
 
The entire history of tweaking has achieved nothing but lead all and sundry who followed down blind alleys where they were effectively blinded by pseudo science and often mugged of not inconsiderable amounts of money.

Spiking has been perhaps the most idiotic of all tweaks. Instead of reducing resonance issues it often exacerbates them.

Real progress involves technological or more likely engineering advances. Unfortunately these are few and far between because market forces rule with an iron hand.

Exactly how far you can tweak a mediocre product and keep it cost effective is a question for the manufacturer to consider. Instead it's often seen as an opportunity for snakelike charlatans to climb on board of the get-rich-quick bandwagon at the expense of mislead enthusiasts.

Thankfully this forum still has members who are freely willing to share their often not inconsiderable knowledge and experience. 
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