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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
No, actually he doubted Michael’s engineering credentials, as if credentials mean something. Can’t you read? Here is the original post, try again. You’re the one twisting his comments to be something innocent. But the point is that credentials are irrelevant. I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.

prof
I don’t know Michael’s engineering credentials, but I personally haven’t seen an engineer refuse to answer some of the basic and obvious engineering questions I was asking (e.g. what measured parameters change between a tied cap and an untied cap?
cd318
2,636 posts
 
A good question to ask before we get embroiled in the highly contentious business of home experimentation might be, 'What, if anything other than a monumental waste of money and time has the entire history of tweaking achieved?' Walk the walk indeed.

Apart from taking care in buying and careful setting up, is there anything more we the consumers need to concern ourselves with? Interconnects (?), loudspeaker cables (??), contact enhancers (??), mains conditioners, magic pens (???), fuses (?????), cable supports (??????) etc.

Serious, highly qualified and experienced engineers, never mind the proverbial man on the street would laugh at some of the lunacy perpetuated in the pursuit of good sound.

Surely it's the job of the designer to research and develop the product in preparation to delivering it to the market.
It's a gross conceit to believe that we can do a better job than the designer and then get angry when people disagree with us!

Instead we might be best advised to first learn exactly what we are looking for and only then to seek it out by listening.
Know thyself my friend.

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Imagine my embarrassment, I just looked down at my Grado headphones and what did I see? SR 80. Wow! No wonder they sound so good! 
thecarpathian's avatar
thecarpathian
4,363 posts
 
@ geoff- Oh, I read it just fine. But, just in case you feel my reading comprehension isn’t up to snuff, be so kind as to direct me to where in the above post did the prof offer up his credentials if MG did the same. You must have read it in there, because that’s the entire premise of your response to it. But, then you explain that the point of your remark is that credentials are irrelevant. The ability and experience that make someone suitable for a particular job is irrelevant??! Wow. Care to explain, or mock, or insult, that one away?
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
CD318.
Just one very recent example of a "tweak" as you call it in my system.

Used Wireworld eclipse 6 xlr interconnects from my phono stage to my integrated and it sounded awful, just thin, grating and lifeless compared to the single ended RCA interconnect of Nordost Red Dawn I had been using, and Nordost have a rep for being thin sounding so go figure.
It was that bad I was convinced the cables were faulty or the xlr inputs/outputs were.
Nope it was just the timbre of that cable did not match my system. Swapped the Wireworld for a cheap pair of Audioquest and the sq was worlds apart even though the RCA Nordost still sound a little better to my ears.
But according to some this should never have happened?
Interconnects are inconsequential tweaks?
I KNOW that is not the case!
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