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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
prof
3,473 posts
 
Wait...I thought we were doing more Monty Python....: (
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Huh?
You mean that post was NOT Monty Python???
He had me fooled!
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
jf47t.
We are all waiting with baited breath for the next installment of this saga...
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
I find MG to be a breath of fresh air and a true innovator in a stale industry. I wish this thread did not get derailed. To bad for folks like me who are open to what he has to say. I like hearing views that stretch me. Really sad. Years ago this site was not like this, at least not to this extent. Such a shame.
prof
3,473 posts
 
jf47t,

I am truly glad for you, that you are having great experiences in this hobby! Sounds like a fun night! I really believe in "to each his own" and though I may not be doing what you guys are, specifically speaking in terms of tweaking, I do my own stuff. So I lift a glass of spirits to you.

But I wonder if the sentiment is the same "from your side of the fence" because posts like you just made does continue to imply others are not "doing" this hobby, and if not by implication "doing it wrong."

Like this:

He said when people are not "doing" the hobby it turns into talking aimlessly.


What do you think Michael meant by not "doing" the hobby?

Because I’m not sure what that could even mean. As far as I can see, everyone here "does" the hobby. On their own terms.

I may not, for instance, be "tuning" wood in my listening room, but I certainly fire up the system, sit back and enjoy music to no end!

Isn’t that "doing" the hobby at all?

Or do we have to be tweaking to do the hobby? Well, I certainly do that sometimes (though I try not to let it take precedence over mostly just listening to music). I like playing with speaker positioning, and acoustics in my room (I’ve made it really easy to do that). I enjoy changing up my amplification, or speakers (I own many speakers because I like how speakers sound different from one another). I spent a good two months setting up and testing all sorts of methods and materials to re-build my equipment rack and make an isolation base for my new turntable.
And I’m just really learning more about VTA adjustment etc.

So do I get to be included in the "doing the hobby" club?

Or does "doing the hobby" mean doing it on MG’s terms, and using his tuning methods?

And if what Michael meant to refer to was ending up posting and discussing the hobby on a forum like this, maybe "instead of" actively listening to our systems or something...then I’m unclear about that as well. After all, we can all walk and chew gum at the same time. I can post this...and soon after listen to a bunch of records, which I plan to do. Posting in this thread has never stopped me from my music listening time. Or from discussing with friends how to achieve something I want in my system. Or research other steps (for instance dialing in my new subwoofers...lots to be done).

And certainly, MG himself spends a lot of time posting on forums, writing evangelically about his method. So there can’t be anything wrong with that.

Just wondering if you can clear these questions up, because I truly am trying to make sense of such statements.

Because I wouldn't go claiming you, or Michael, or anyone else on this thread "isn't doing the hobby" and I'm wondering on what grounds you feel you/Michael can claim that about other audio enthusiasts. 

Thanks!






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