How much do I need to spend to get a preamp that sounds better than no preamp?

Honashagen  5-26-2018
As I sit here listening with no preamp, it seems like common sense would tell you that if a preamp alters the sound from the source in any way it's really a processor of some type. Right? 

... Unless, that is, the presence of the preamp somehow causes the source component to behave in a more accurate manner.  And as you've read above, there are what I would consider to be plausible technical explanations for why that may be the case in some systems. 

Also, my perception has been that in past threads in which the preamp/no preamp issue has been discussed a significant majority of the reported user experiences has been that the addition of an active preamp to the path between a source component containing a DAC and a power amp has been beneficial.  I would not assume that all and perhaps even most of those experiences were the result of inaccuracies introduced by the preamp.

Subtle effects can often occur in electronic circuits and systems that have consequences which are counter-intuitive, and that are not necessarily consistent with what "common sense" may lead one to expect.

Regards,
-- Al

As I listen to more music (sans preamp, which also means sans 2 SVS powered subs) I am overjoyed by how much richer the midrange, more accurate the bass, and quieter the background. Playing cds like CSN with musicians spread wide on the stage and spot on individual singer locations is shear enjoyment

I am curious to know whether (or why) my active preamp outs somehow interfered with the SVS inputs.

Seems like the only way to reengage the subs is with something. Wish I could afford the Tortuga. whichever one I experiment with will need XLR I/Os and one set of RCA outs 

Anybody? 

As I sit here listening with no preamp, it seems like common sense would tell you that if a preamp alters the sound from the source in any way it’s really a processor of some type. Right?

To me this is correct, but I use the term colouration/distortions not processor.
And that why all "preamp aficionados" have different views how all of them sound, as no two sound the same, and no one sounds like the proverbial "piece of wire" like going direct does.

Also sources today and even yesterday have outputs that are just as good as most preamps, and better than some.

Here’s another little gem from the audio god himself on passives: And going direct is even easier for the source.

Nelson Pass:
Historically we have had a number of consumers concerned about input and output
impedances of equipment, but from our experience the concern is largely unjustified.
From the standpoint of input impedance, I can only say that it is a very pitiful source that
cannot come up with the 100 micro-amps of current needed to drive this input. I don’t know
of any tube circuit that doesn’t bias to at least 100 times this amount.
The output impedance needs to be low enough to drive the capacitance of a reasonably long
cable. How low does it need to be? I would say that it should be able to drive a 1000 pF
load out to 100 KHz. The worst case output impedance of the Aleph L will drive 1000 pF
with a -3dB rolloff at 225 KHz."

Cheers George

Sometimes when we get too smart we sacrifice common sense. Not that I am more experienced or smarter than the posters here. 

For me, common sense tells me that ANY time you can eliminate cables, jacks, circuitry from the signal, it would be better- better as in 'more accurate'. Saves money, too. 

But sometimes, adding a preamp serves to RESTORE, what is lost between the source and the amp. Passives aren't always as transparent as they seem. 

I think it IS possible to have a preamp with a better volume control than what the Oppo does, easier on the cables, and thus, better sound. Or not. Which parts of science we wish to apply should not cloud the application of what will actually work better. 

I might ask, is the modulas 3a or 3b better than the L1? What about balanced? I missed if those are being used going direct with the Oppo. 

I missed if those are being used going direct with the Oppo.

It is one case where going direct to amp with the balanced output betters the rca because the Oppo use a balanced output dacs in the Sabre which has + and - outputs in each channel, so it's naturally better to use it's xlr output than it's re-configured xlr to rca.

Cheers George