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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,624 posts
 
I just read these posts and my system still sounds the same? Learned nothing. Perhaps my system sounds worse as my emotional state is not at peace. I guess I’m also out of this thread and one of the weaklings who can’t take the heat. I leave pointing out the fact that the forums here on Audiogon are losing more and more good Agoners who are weary of what this site has become. A lot of good ones are now gone or have decided to stay mostly quiet.

prof
3,522 posts
 
grannyring,

The confrontational posts continue to derail any hopes of this and others threads ever amounting to anything of real value.


It’s already been pointed out to you: the topic, started by Michael, concerned people he claimed were faking it. Discussing the basis for those claims - about people faking it, about empirical methods etc - IS keeping the topic on the rail. Michael’s thread explicitly (well, as explicitly as he is capable of writing) challenges skeptics, so it’s ridiculous to complain when any skeptics answer the call to defend their view against Michael’s critique.


Not every subject matter and thread is about debate and arguing.


Then why would Michael make an inherently argumentative thread?? Why doesn’t THAT bother you at all?
Can’t you see the blindspot you seem to have for MG’s behaviour here?

You don’t walk in to a room and say "Some people here are faking it! Why are you faking it?" and expect nobody to question this or object...right?

Is it intellectually honest to make an inherently disparaging claim about other people, and when challenged on it simply respond: "Look, I’m not going to argue about it."

Hey grannyring, you are insincere. Don’t bother replying with any defence of yourself; i don’t want to hear it, I’m here to make that claim, and I’ll hear from anyone who just agrees with my assessment of your character, but I’m not going to argue about it so save your breath!

You can immediately see that is a jerk move should anyone make it.

And yet you seem oblivious when people seem to accept that very move as being "nice" and "diplomatic" - when MG uses this tactic. I’m asking you to think more fairly on this. Is that so bad?



Can we hear about what tuning measures, devices, stands, platforms, modifications, gear etc.., was used to bring about such engaging music?


If you want THAT to be the topic of a thread, why not ask Michael to make a thread on THAT topic. E.g. "Let’s discuss tuning our systems."

But please, it doesn’t do anyone any good to keep implying that anyone actually keeping on topic is "derailing" the topic. And to continually disparage the motivations and character of people for keeping the thread on the topic. (As others have joined MG in doing).




geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

amg56
@geoffkait Hey Geoff, will your quantum teleportation thingy fix my keyboard?

>>>>I heard through the grapevine the Teleportation Tweak will improve the reception of smartphones. And I’m not hot doggin ya. 🌭 The way I figure it that should be worth a Nobel all by itself, forget about audio.
jf47t
116 posts
 

Prof

You've hit my funny bone again. Your up on this thread screaming at people and MG isn't even here. Calm down dude your getting worked up all over. Michael's off enjoying Mingus and the last thing on his mind is entertaining your spinning.

prof
3,522 posts
 


There you go again jf47t,

Taking a page out of MG's book - instead of answering my posts or admitting I may have any point at all, you come in to toss another version of "you mad bruh?"

MG teaches his disciples well, it seems.

Who cares if Michael is off enjoying Mingus?  I was just listening to Bernard Herrmann.  And some Kiss records.  What in the world does that have to do with anything?  

Why try to imply MG is some enlightened figure, above causing any acrimony "because he's off listening to music."

He left another post here dangling in public, avoiding any point I have made, and simply characterizing me as trolling.  

But on your view, that's ok - hey, as long as Michael does that and goes off to listen to sweet music - "why so mad bruh"?

Insofar as you keep this up, you are literally helping MG troll in this thread. 

(And btw, neither you nor Michael can actually support your characterizations as if I'm just some troll.  For instance, I have a thread going in the speaker forum with thousands of views as I report my experience auditioning various speakers, with quite a bit of appreciation voiced for my efforts.  And you can see in this very thread that I express thanks to a manufacturer who ACTUALLY takes the effort to acknowledge the type of questions I've asked MG, and answer them.
Every time you feel yourself wanting to once again, simply think of me - or other people voicing skepticism in this thread - as just meanies and trolls WITHOUT coming up with an actual response to our points...this should ring a tiny bell that this isn't really the best way forward to converse with someone who may not believe what you believe). 
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