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What Matters and What is Nonsense

I’ve been an audiophile for approximately 50 years. In my college days, I used to hang around the factory of a very well regarded speaker manufacturer where I learned a lot from the owners. When I started with audio it was a technical hobby. You were expected to know something about electronics and acoustics. Listening was important, but understanding why something sounded good or not so good was just as important. No one in 1968 would have known what you were talking about if you said you had tweaked your system and it sounded so much better. But if you talked about constant power output with frequency, or pleasing second-order harmonic distortion versus jarring odd-order harmonics in amplification, you were part of the tribe.

Starting in the 1980s, a lot of pseudo scientific nonsense started appearing. Power cords were important. One meter interconnects made a big difference. Using a green magic marker on the edge of a CD was amazing. Putting isolation dampers under a CD transport lifted the veil on the music. Ugh. This stuff still make my eyes roll, even after all these years.

So I have decided to impart years and years of hard won knowledge to today’s hobbists who might be interested in reality. This is my list of the steps in the audio reproduction chain, and the relative importance of each step. My ranking of relative importance includes a big dose of cost/benefit ratio. At this point in the evolution of audio, I am assuming digital recording and reproduction.

Item / Importance to the sound on a scale of 1-10 / Cost benefit ratio

  • The room the recording was made in / 8 / Nothing you can do about it
  • The microphones and setup used in the recording / 8 / nothing you can do about it.
  • The equalization and mixing of the recording / 10 / Nothing you can do about it
  • The technology used for the recording (analog, digital, sample rate, etc.) / 5 / nothing you can do about it.
  • The format of the consumer recording (vinyl, CD, DSD, etc.) 44.1 - 16 really is good enough / 3 / moderate CB ratio
  • The playback device i.e. cartridge or DAC / 5 / can be a horribe CB ratio - do this almost last
  • The electronics - preamp and amp / 4 / the amount of money wasted on $5,000 preamps and amps is amazing.
  • Low leve interconnects / 2 / save your money, folks
  • Speaker cables / 3 / another place to save your money
  • Speakers / 10 / very very high cost to benefit ratio. Spend your money here.
  • Listening room / 9 / an excellent place to put your money. DSPs have revolutionized audio reproduction
In summary, buy the best speakers you can afford, and invest in something like Dirac Live or learn how to use REW and buy a MiniDSP HD to implement the filters. Almost everything else is a gross waste of money.
phomchick
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
I don’t mind repeating myself, prof - everything in your post to rbtstehno was fallacious. You are, for whatever set of reasons, not exactly clued in to the whole illogical argument thing. You obviously think you are. But hey, it makes for interesting discussion. I dunno why you would attack me or my web site. For one thing that’s another fallacious argument, argumentum ad hominem. “God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason.” - Judge Judy
prof
3,522 posts
 


*dunk! Splash!* . (Here’s a towel...)

geoff,

Simply repeating "yes you ARE being fallacious!"....is not an argument establishing that conclusion.

Your objections could be interesting if you at least showed a grasp of the distinction between repeating assertions (as you keep doing) and actually making an argument. That’s why I tried to get you to actually produce an argument - even as a starting point what you think to be MY argument - if you are actually going to call it fallacious.

If you are attacking a purported argument as fallacious, the first order of business is to actually point to the author’s premises and his CONCLUSION < --you know, the part you are supposed to show to be fallacious!

Yet you’ve been asked twice to do so, and to point directly to the CONCLUSION you claim I argued for, and why it is fallacious. That’s why I’ve said, please scour what I answered and try to find that CONCLUSION you are objecting to.

Kinda basic stuff that seems to escape your notice. You don’t even seem to recognize the relevance of pointing to an arguments conclusion, when arguing it is fallacious. Let alone being able to show it is in fact the conclusion argued for!

So, I’ll leave you spinning your wheels I guess.

But if you want to try again:

What do you take to be the argument I made, including it’s CONCLUSION?

(Hints: Did I argue there was no sonic difference in the Home depot/synergistic research cable comparison raised by rbstehno? Of course not. I never compared those items. Did I argue for the conclusion no sonic differences exist between cables? Nope: I explicitly said I was not making any such claim. So what in the world do you think I was arguing for? What conclusion is haunting your imagination that you could show I *actually* made?)

(And, again, you mistakenly point to yet another form of argument I did not in fact make - argumentum ad hominem, but it seems we have to deal with one fallacy at a time here).


geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

prof

geoff,

Simply repeating "yes you ARE being fallacious!"....is not an argument establishing that conclusion.

>>>>I know you are but what am I? If you can’t figure it out by now this conversation can serve no purpose any more, professor. This is a study in the lecturee - that would be you - believing or trying to pretend he’s the lecturer. 🤡 Wake up and smell the coffee! ☕️

I’m beginning to see why you took Michael Green’s post so personally. 😀

prof
3,522 posts
 
geoffkait:

this conversation can serve no purpose any more

Agreed, it couldn't serve the purpose you had for it ;-)


gpullman
14 posts
 
Hi

I am kinda new to this but here is my $.02. I have always loved music and have had a stereo system since a teen Pioneer receiver, Mission Freedom speakers, techniques turntable Sanyo cassette. Nothing great. Then about 15 years ago I  upgraded to Onkyo Receiver 626 Mordantshort speakers, then added Sonos connect. All my friends thought that I had a great sounding system and I was also happy. I then purchased a HSU sub which further enhanced the sound. 6 years ago I heard Monitor Audio silver 6's and loved them and purchased. My friends still enjoyed my system. I have a client who has 3 high end systems and I asked what I could do to enhance my current system. He told me what to buy and here my experience begins. He said that my Monitor Audio speakers were good but too small for the size of my room. I should also buy a NAD51 DAC and a Parasound A23 or used A21. If I could find a REL sub Stadium 3 or better add that. I should buy an oppo, a power conditioner and upgrade cables. I struggled to pay $15k in cables like he has for each system. The first thing I purchased was the NAD Dac and Parasound A23. Once that was hooked up with regular BB cables that I had my Monitor Audio speakers never sounded so good it was a huge improvement. So that got me going. I bought a Bryston Pii and although it isn't as friendly to use as the Sonos is I think I hear a more clear sound. I purchased average cables MacKenzie XLR and Coffee USB AB. I can't honestly say I hear a difference over BB RCA's. I found a REL Stadium 3 and it sounds way better than the HSU The HSU was too boomy and the REL just extended the bass nicely. I struggled to come to grips with a power conditioner however whomever I spoke with said it would make a difference. My client said Running Springs Jacco was a good one. I had the opportunity to borrow a RS Haley and it did make a slight difference to the sound slightly clearer and separation in voice and instruments were better. Where the big difference in the power conditioner came to be was when I disconnected it My music sounded really harsh which I had never heard before and the separation wasn't the same between instruments and voice. I couldn't find a Jacco to buy but I broke the bank when a Dimitri came up for sale. I also had the fortune to buy at a great price I think BW 803s and they sound even better than the Monitor Audio. I have heard the 800D3's and would love a pair one day. As far as cables go I bought a signal cable power cord and I have to say it made my music sound more laid back. Not sure if I like that or not and the more upbeat music seems to be missing something not as  punchy with just a regular power cord. I am running cheap speaker wire that was put through my walls when I built my house so I don't know what expensive speaker cables will do to my sound. Anyway that is my story I am not an expert just a guy who loves music but I have to say that the changes that I have made have made a noticeable improvement in my system. As far as interconnects go I have tried a few different ones all lower cost and I can't say that I hear a difference so the jury is still out on those.Still struggle with $1,000 cables.
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